Start Position
Yeah. 00:00:07
OK. 00:00:52
Good morning. 00:00:56
I was told 5 minutes ago I was going to chair this meeting. Happy to do it. 00:00:59
Are we all set to go? Payson is OK. We're ready to go and pay. 00:01:04
Payson. 00:01:10
Oh. 00:01:15
OK, Payson, we're ready to go. 00:01:21
Yes, I thank you. And we're all set on the Internet. 00:01:25
OK, I'm going to ask my lovely wife who had her hip replaced 3 weeks ago and happy to be here to lead us in the Pledge of 00:01:29
Allegiance if you would. Thank you. 00:01:34
Well, if I forgot to say the words, this meeting is called to order so. 00:02:01
Our first, we have a work session today which is always great. We can talk a lot about projects and what's going on in the future 00:02:07
project. So our first item today is Item 2A, which is information discussion on the current update to the Tunnel Creek bridge 00:02:14
construction project. And we have Tom Goodman and Rachel Hanson with us. 00:02:20
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Supervisors, thank you for inviting us to be here today. We want to give you an update on the Tunnel 00:02:30
Creek Bridge project. 00:02:34
We do have. We have two presentations today, two PowerPoint presentations. I had the first one submitted. 00:02:39
Humira asked me to go a little bit more into detail about schedule and budget, so I put together a second one. So we'll we'll go 00:02:47
through both of them this morning. 00:02:51
I'd like to start with this slide because this is really a great slide and it to me it really shows the tremendous effort with all 00:02:59
the different agencies and people that made this project. 00:03:06
Get. 00:03:13
So in this one you see we've got our banner in the background. 00:03:15
We've got the mountains in the background. We're looking to the. 00:03:19
And just behind us is where the bridge will be built. 00:03:23
And again, it's just such a great slide. It really shows how everything came together. That was on October 4th. 00:03:27
And just take a note the the background of the slide look how much vegetation is there. 00:03:37
You'll you'll notice in the future slides the difference of work, how it's progressing. 00:03:44
So this October 4th we had the ground breaking ceremony. It really turned out very well as a lot of people in this room were there 00:03:54
and we really appreciate it. 00:03:58
We we have this invitation that went out to a lot of people and we have these coins that you see in the middle. We handed out 00:04:04
quite a few of those. 00:04:08
We ran short and we do want to make sure, so we got some for each of you today. 00:04:13
We also are getting some extra We want to make sure that all the kids at the elementary school get one, and so we will take care 00:04:19
of that and then we're just having some extras made. 00:04:24
We will pass out during the project as it progresses. 00:04:30
So I just want to go back a little ways and just kind of bring you up to speed. 00:04:38
As we all know that this is the the bridge project, it's kind of down in the tunnel basin area which is. 00:04:44
Also, we have the unincorporated town of Pumpkin Center. Just to recap, Ames was low bidder on this project. 00:04:51
And they came in at $21,094,933.18 and and I'm going to go into that a little bit more here in the next slide. 00:04:59
Just to again, the bridge is 1981 feet long. It's it's a very long bridge. It's a concrete steel girder bridge. 00:05:09
It's two lanes, one lane in each direction. It's got shoulders and then we've got a sidewalk of 5-6 foot sidewalk on one side of 00:05:19
the bridge for pedestrians. 00:05:24
Yeah, and the sidewalk. It runs all the way down to the school so the kids can use the bridge as an access point to school. 00:05:30
So I want to talk a little bit more about the bids, how they came in and and how we really, I think we did very well on this 00:05:40
actually. 00:05:45
So Ames was low bidder and I mentioned their price just over 21 million. 00:05:50
So adopts estimate which I've got listed as department estimate. 00:05:54
A dot estimated the project would come in. 00:05:59
About $21.849 million. 00:06:02
So Ames was quite a bit under that. 00:06:06
And they were actually the only contractor under the department bid every the other six contractors listed. 00:06:10
They were significantly over. 00:06:17
The bit on what a dot estimated, so I think we were very fortunate that we got such a good big price for names construction. 00:06:20
And you can see the bids. 00:06:29
23.4 all the way up to 27.8 million. 00:06:31
So let's get into some of the challenges we've got with the project. I'm sure everybody knows about these. 00:06:42
This area down the tunnel. 00:06:50
It's very pristine. There's a lot of habitat that has to be protected. Some of it's endangered, some of it's threatened. 00:06:52
The first one I want to talk about is the Northern Mexican Garter snake. 00:07:01
And this little guy is a threatened species. 00:07:08
But we definitely we have a full time biologist on the project every day before contractor gets started. 00:07:15
Before he moves one piece of equipment. 00:07:22
The Biolog. 00:07:25
Walks through and inspects the project. He looks under vehicles to see if there's any snakes. 00:07:27
He looks for any activity that happened during the night and then if he does locate any of these, they have to get relocated 00:07:32
before the contractor is allowed to get started. 00:07:37
Also to add, this Creek area is a great habitat place for the snake. It's very common near water so. 00:07:44
They run into it a lot. 00:07:51
This this is a little bit smaller picture, but this shows this was actually right in pumpkin center. 00:07:56
This was taken about 3-4 years ago. 00:08:02
And it. 00:08:06
It just shows how careful you got to look out for those snakes. This this little guy got right underneath a truck tire. Luckily he 00:08:08
was spotting. They got him. 00:08:12
So we do have some other threatened and endangered species. 00:08:22
This is a Southwest Willow Flycatcher. 00:08:29
And this one is actually on the endangered list. So this again is something that. 00:08:32
This comes into more play with the clearing limits, and we were. 00:08:40
Held to clearing between October and March. 00:08:45
Because of the birds nesting during that period. 00:08:49
So again, this this one's endangered. 00:08:52
So we have the next and I thought we had the name of this guy, but he yeah, we do. He's a threatened species. 00:09:00
And that's the Western Yellow Billed Cuckoo. 00:09:08
So despite days, fish is not in danger, but its habitat down in the tunnel basin is is considered critical habitat. 00:09:19
So we have to be mindful of that as well. 00:09:29
The reason I'm showing you this this bridge at the school is. 00:09:39
It's really tied into the project, so right after the project got started. 00:09:43
The principal of the elementary school came to us and said, hey, we've got a problem when Reno Creek floods. 00:09:49
How are we going to get to school or get our kids out if if the monsoon comes in middle a day while we're in session because we 00:09:56
got old Highway 188 closed. 00:10:01
So Steve Sanders, our previous public works director, came up with the idea This bridge had been up years before and had been 00:10:06
taken down, but Steve had us put it back up for the elementary school. So I just wanted to mention that quickly. 00:10:14
There's a lot of pieces about the project that may be going on behind the scenes, but that we're working on all the time. 00:10:22
Also, the library there uses the bridge whenever Reno's flooding and. 00:10:30
Is the post office, is it past there? Yeah. So it's a it's a good access point for for other community members as well to get 00:10:38
across Reno when Reno is going. 00:10:43
So it just shows we're really working with the community. We we keep them informed of what the project, where we're at with the 00:10:50
project, we give them regular updates. 00:10:55
And it's really an important part, public outreach. 00:11:00
OK, so let me get into one of the first concerns that we have with the project. This came up shortly after we got started. 00:11:08
Again, the groundbreaking ceremony was October 1st, but the project actually had been underway for a month. Time started September 00:11:18
1st. 00:11:22
And this is a 390 working day project. 00:11:27
So by the time we had the ground breaking ceremony, themes had already been out on the project for about a month, and mostly what 00:11:31
they had been doing was going through their submittals, looking at their plans and specifications carefully. They've been doing 00:11:37
some survey work. 00:11:42
And they've been moving in and setting up their. 00:11:48
So this was one of the first issues Ames brought up. 00:11:52
To a dot and to us that they had a concern about and what this has to do with. 00:11:55
Is when we get to building the bridge, there's going to be a lot of cranes and a lot of delivery of the big concrete girders. 00:12:01
So Ames brought this up is like, hey, we have a problem. You guys didn't give us enough construction easements, temporary 00:12:09
construction easements. 00:12:13
To get these big steel girders unloaded with the cranes and they submitted several documents here that I'll go through. 00:12:18
So what you see is you see the. 00:12:26
And then you see the cranes. 00:12:30
Getting ready and the girders and then you see down at the what's in the blue is the additional construction easements that Ames 00:12:32
ask us for. 00:12:38
So this is just the other side and again you see the bridge and then you see the additional construction easements. 00:12:48
So this shows it a little bit better. You see the crane. 00:12:57
You see the bridge? 00:13:01
And then on the far left, that's the additional construction easements that aims. 00:13:03
Us to get for them. So there was a lot of debate about this. It wasn't just the slam dunk. 00:13:09
Our designer, Kimmy Horn, they didn't agree. They said no, the the project can be built the way it is. 00:13:15
These additional construction easements are not needed. 00:13:22
There was a lot of back and forth discussion between. 00:13:26
Ames and Heva County, we were involved as well. 00:13:29
What it boiled down to. 00:13:34
We got to get to a resolution. We got to keep the project moving. 00:13:37
Or otherwise it's gonna come to a dead stop and that was the last thing we wanted to happen. 00:13:40
So what we agreed was we will get you the additional easements. 00:13:46
And when we tried to do that, we found out. 00:13:53
The biological opinion is going to have to get updated, so this is where we ran into the problem. 00:13:56
The biological opinion is The update is reviewed by US Fish and Wildlife Service. 00:14:02
The original one took eight or nine months to get it updated. We are now in that process and it's taking up to 135 days. 00:14:09
Yeah, OK. So if you look at the diagram, notice that the original easement is where the crane is. 00:14:21
And they wanted more room for a truck to bring material to and from there. That way they don't have to reset up the crane every 00:14:28
time the truck comes in. 00:14:32
That's a lot of effort to stabilize the crane, get it in a good position so it can put more material up on the deck of the bridge. 00:14:37
So that extra space really gives them more time or more less less move around of equipment as well and and just more workability 00:14:43
space. 00:14:50
If, if, Mr. Chair, if I may, if, if I may, ask a question. 00:14:58
The OK, the cost involved in them wanting extra space. 00:15:04
OK, we're we're going to have to get extra permits and things. 00:15:10
So, so what's going to be the cost, the bottom line cost of this in either project delays or that kind of stuff? Are we, are we 00:15:15
looking at more of a cost, more, more delays on the project? 00:15:21
Is there something they can do while this is being waited on? 00:15:28
So, yeah, good, Great question. There are a lot of things that can be done on the West side and on the east side. 00:15:33
This so this easement is for actually when they start placing the girders on the bridge, which is that's not really scheduled 00:15:40
until. 00:15:44
Late summer of this year. 00:15:49
There are things that can be done, but there's a few things that can't be done right now, and one of the things that they can't do 00:15:52
is build the gabion baskets on each end. 00:15:57
So there are some delays currently associated with us getting these construction easements. 00:16:02
So we meet every week. We have weekly meetings every Wednesday with a dot and the contractor. 00:16:08
The delays that we are incurring right now have been going on for about. 00:16:15
Six weeks, 6-7 weeks on getting these additional easements. 00:16:21
The Fish and Wildlife Service. They have 135 days to. 00:16:26
Review this new biologic opinion. So right now we're about 6-7 weeks into delays. 00:16:31
Ames notified us just in the last couple of weeks that their standby costs are about 25,000 a month. 00:16:38
So that's kind of what we're looking at for delays right now it's about 25,000 a month that they're going to ask for in 00:16:46
compensation. 00:16:50
Mr. Chair, if they bid it according to plans then. 00:16:56
They're changing the plan. 00:17:01
We brought the A dot spec is very clear when a contractor bids a project when a contractor submits his bid on a project. 00:17:03
He is stating that he is satisfied with the plans as is and that he can build the project as is based on those plans. 00:17:12
The reality is contractors are bidding on a lot of projects. 00:17:21
To get to this kind of detail to really look at a project this closely. 00:17:27
It's they'll always bring this argument enough. It's like, yeah, we did the best we could, but until we really got into the weeds 00:17:33
on this thing, we did not realize that we didn't have enough construction easements. 00:17:39
And again, this was a big conversation between a doc Kim Lee Horn. 00:17:46
And he. 00:17:51
And we we finally just said, look, we got to resolve this. We don't necessarily agree with it, but we've got to get to resolution. 00:17:53
We've got to keep the project moving. It's just critical. 00:17:57
And so that's that's where we're at right now. 00:18:03
Anymore I'm good for now? 00:18:06
Mr. Chair Owen. So, so Tom, I'm trying to sort through this is your is your giving us this rundown? But basically what they're 00:18:11
wanting to do is they're wanting that additional easement to keep from having to tear that crane down and move it every time they 00:18:15
need to move. 00:18:20
Correct. So they bid it that way. That's my opinion. If they have to tear that crane down and move it, then that's what they have 00:18:24
to do. 00:18:28
You know, I don't know. I don't know why we would even step out there to try and do that. That's up to the contractor. That ain't. 00:18:32
That ain't up to us. 00:18:36
And that that was our position, that the county's position, A dot, did not see it that way. 00:18:41
A dot sided with the contractor. 00:18:48
They looked at it and they said, yeah, based on what we're seeing we the contractor needs this additional construction easement. 00:18:50
So then that means they don't can pay that 25,000. No, it's it's going to come out of contingency. 00:18:57
So the project, there's 5% contingency in the project which is. 00:19:05
$1,054,747. 00:19:10
And. 00:19:16
Yeah, it's on a different one. So I'll get, yeah, we'll, we'll cover the contingency, but. 00:19:24
It's right now. We Haven. 00:19:29
Gotten into this contingency, we've still got most of that $1 million sitting there. 00:19:31
But yeah, that's the way it is. We we don't agree with it, but we had to get to resolution to keep the project moving. So Mr. 00:19:37
Chair, if I may. 00:19:41
Tom, one of the things you're saying is? 00:19:47
You've got until the end of the summer when they really need that extra right away, right? Not necessarily for the bridge burgers, 00:19:50
yes, but for the Gabion baskets. They need that now. Well, explain that to me. 00:19:57
Because I mean this started out with the with the crane need to set those pillars and now we're talking about gabion basket, 00:20:05
correct so. 00:20:09
That in itself should have been upfront in the contract when they they bid on it in the project. 00:20:13
Yeah, let me go back just one or two slides here. 00:20:22
So. 00:20:26
OK, so those are the Gabion baskets. 00:20:32
And then you see him down there on the other end. So on both ends of the bridge we have Gator baskets. 00:20:37
And you can see they've got highlighted that they need construction easements to build those baskets. 00:20:43
So that's where they're right now. That's where the delay is coming from. 00:20:50
They can't right now they're not able to build those baskets. So we are incurring 25,000 a month. 00:20:55
Delay for that reason at this point. 00:21:02
Well, Mr. Chair, if. 00:21:05
They can't place them, they can build them. They just can't place them unless they build them in place. Well, they build the 00:21:09
baskets, but they don't put any material in them. So they build the baskets and then they start placing them and then they start 00:21:14
filling them with rock and bringing and bringing them up at that point. And they can't do that within the easement that they have, 00:21:19
correct? 00:21:24
Mr. Chair, for me, I I I know where you're going with this and I totally see it too. That should have been way up front when they 00:21:31
bid on this thing. 00:21:35
No, I I I don't disagree with you. 00:21:40
Ada will disagree with us and the thing we have to remember is that a dot is administering the project for us. 00:21:44
So they are the lead agency. We're the owner. 00:21:52
Cost overruns around us, not on. 00:21:57
But A dot is administering the project in this case, Adopt said. Hey, look, we agree with the contractor. 00:22:00
And we brought this up. It's like they did the project. 00:22:07
When they submitted their bid and it's an 8 out specification, there's they said we accept it, we can build the project as is, 00:22:10
but. 00:22:14
The reality is where we're at now. 00:22:18
That's amazing to me. Yeah, just amazing. 00:22:21
We're going to let you finish your presentation here, but. 00:22:25
It seems like you could build those baskets from a pad up above them. 00:22:29
I guess you can't. But anyway, I agree with the comments that. 00:22:33
Why does any problem that comes along end up being our problem? When they had clear plans on what the project involved, we ran 00:22:39
into this with Rio. 00:22:46
Creek and Gabians, they put along there, somebody said, well, oh, I didn't see that. There's supposed to be a stack of three of 00:22:53
them there. And then we ended up having to pay more to that when they should have eaten that in my opinion. But anyway, Rachel, 00:22:59
yeah, we agree with you. And also Kim Lee Horn, our designer, they agree as well. OK, well, we'll talk about that a little more. 00:23:06
Anymore comments at this point, just one recommendation next time we accept the bid. 00:23:13
We ought to have some writing in there because maybe 23 million. 00:23:21
On the ones that bid, 23 million didn't didn't want extra access, you know, and so maybe it could have been taken care of when the 00:23:26
bid was accepted rather than us having to get into contingency funds that we're going to end up paying 20, three, $24 million for 00:23:34
this bridge anyway because the contractor oversaw some stuff. Go ahead and continue. 00:23:42
So that's kind of where we're at right now with the current delays. 00:23:56
We just drafted a letter to the US Secretary of Interior. 00:24:01
For signature, either by Mr. Menlov or one of the board members. 00:24:09
We're just what we're asking. 00:24:14
Let's let's whatever it takes to expedite this, let's get this biological opinion updated. 00:24:17
Let's get out of these current delays that we're in and getting going full, full. 00:24:23
So, Mr. Chair, if I may, yes, that. 00:24:29
That does bring up something too and and GMG might want to chime in on this, but that may call for somebody like Patty in DC to 00:24:33
kind of. 00:24:37
Right heard on this and see if she. 00:24:43
Lean on them in DC to try and push this on through. You know, one of the things I think about to get an extended biological 00:24:45
opinion on this, The works already been done on the ground. 00:24:50
Basically they just need the distance solar looking at the time frames have already been identified, so you know when you're 00:24:56
talking and I think Tommy said 100 and some days 135 days. There's no reason something like that doesn't go beyond 30 days. I 00:25:01
mean, not in my simple way of thinking so. 00:25:07
Maybe Patty can help us. 00:25:13
Yeah, so we have drafted a letter and we're doing everything we can to to get this expedited as quickly as possible. Mr. Chair, if 00:25:18
I may, one more, one more question. OK, so we're we're paying what Game and Fish $250,000 to watch for the snakes and the birds. 00:25:24
So adding extra easement, is Game of Fish going to come back and hit us with more square footage to cover before construction can 00:25:30
start? 00:25:37
No, they're yeah, they're out there. I think their contract was 175,000. 00:25:44
But they're out there every day, so they will once we get this easement approved by US Fish and Wildlife Service when they approve 00:25:51
the biological opinion. 00:25:57
AIMS will go out there and clear this additional easement, and it's only been like 1 1/2 acres. It's not a lot, but they can't. 00:26:02
They can't do anything until the biological opinion is updated. 00:26:11
If it takes the heart 435 days, it's it's going to be about March 9th. 00:26:16
So we're hoping. We hope to have it a couple of weeks ago. We bring this up at every weekly meeting with a dot. It's like, where 00:26:22
are we at on the biological? 00:26:27
And a dot environmental planning group they give us. 00:26:33
They understand our frustration. 00:26:37
And they're doing everything they can. I think we're doing everything we can to to get this resolved as quickly as possible. 00:26:40
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Anymore, Mr. Humphrey. 00:26:50
Supervisor Klein, you're good. OK, I think you understand how we feel. I have a question. Are we going to keep the footbridge over 00:26:54
Reno Creek after this project is done? 00:26:59
That's a good question. We haven't really thought that far ahead on it. Yeah, good question though. So. 00:27:07
I think the message from us is that we should pursue every Ave. possible to shorten the biological review to short as possible. 00:27:15
And. 00:27:24
Even though it goes into a contingency mode. 00:27:27
Taxpayers are still paying for that, correct. So that's not, that doesn't sit well with anybody here, so OK. 00:27:31
So right now, Tunnel Creek is running. 00:27:41
Yes. So there's actually days there that they couldn't work anyway, right? Correct. How does that play into this? So what we're 00:27:44
doing is? 00:27:48
I had a good conversation with the ADOT resident engineer about this and what she decided to do. 00:27:54
Contractor There's still some things they can do on the West side. 00:28:00
But they can't get over to the east side. Ames is not going to let their employees crossover the Creek as long as we have it 00:28:04
closed. 00:28:07
So what a dot is doing is they are giving the contractor weather days. Even though they may be doing some work, they're giving 00:28:11
them a weather day for for that particular day as long as they can't get across the Creek. 00:28:17
So that's when they give a weather day, it's it's not part of, it's a working day contract. 00:28:24
On a working day contract we charge Monday through Friday. It doesn't matter if they work for 10s or 5/8, they still get charged 00:28:30
five days a week on working days. 00:28:34
When we give them a weather day, they don't get charged for that day. 00:28:39
Now that's that's fine. 00:28:43
But at some point, Ames may say, hey, look, this is we've got equipment sitting out there. 00:28:45
On stand. 00:28:52
And so at some point Ames may say, look we didn't anticipate this many weather days. So they may ask for some additional 00:28:54
compensation based on that. They haven't done that yet though. That's good because I was about to blow up right on that one. This 00:29:00
is winter time and creeks do run. I mean we're we got the luxury of some pretty dry winters but and this was predicted for a dry 00:29:06
winter, I get it and I'll take a dry winter like this any day, but under the circumstances they they they they know what they're 00:29:12
up against. 00:29:18
Yeah, and. 00:29:24
What we do up in the high countries, up in the pacing area is we know there's going to be winter shutdowns. 00:29:26
But that's anticipated, so you may shut down a project for, say, two months. 00:29:32
But it's anticipated the contractor typically will take all their equipment and demo from the project. 00:29:37
But this situation is quite a bit different because it's we don't know, we don't know if the creeks flowing or not. 00:29:43
They're not taking their equipment out, it's just sitting there on standby. So it's it's a little bit different situation. 00:29:50
Thank you. Well, and this is what happens when you get a bid that comes down to a razor thin profit margin and then they try and 00:29:58
make it up with other in other ways that I've seen that before. 00:30:04
And I'm sure there's an act of God clause in this contract somewhere, but anyway. 00:30:11
Is there any other comments before? 00:30:17
Get these poor people off of the hook. 00:30:20
Thank you, Tom and Rachel. Good report. Appreciate it. 00:30:24
If that's all you guys have, we have more slides. But if. Oh, you do, OK, I'm sorry. We can keep going. Oh, keep going. I think 00:30:28
we're done. I'm sorry. 00:30:32
Speed it up. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Hey, yeah. 00:30:37
I thought you were ready to leave. 00:30:41
Yeah, we just go through these quickly. But OK, we are, we're capturing the entire project with drone. We have a drone, we go down 00:30:44
a flight once a month. 00:30:48
And so I just wanted to show some photographs. 00:30:54
Of how the project is progressing. 00:30:58
This is. 00:31:02
It's kind of boring, but it's looking. 00:31:04
You see some quite a bit of earth work going on and you see the. 00:31:07
Creeks. 00:31:12
There's the cell tower that went up prior to the start of the job, but again, you can see a lot of earth work that AIM is doing. 00:31:15
So the first picture when we showed the ground breaking ceremony with you guys in it, that's where it happened. 00:31:24
And now when you looked out beyond that first picture, you saw lots of vegetation. You can see all the earthwork that's being 00:31:31
done, that there's been a lot of work. 00:31:36
This was uh. 00:31:45
Several weeks ago. 00:31:47
January 5th for you see the creeks flowing. 00:31:49
So just some good different views of the project. 00:32:00
Mr. Chair, if I might. So Todd, when you when you talked about that road being closed off so the school can't get out that way, I 00:32:08
mean, is it physically and totally closed off or is it just. 00:32:13
Construction type Rd. Yeah, it's totally closed that that roads. It's already been torn out. It's gonna be completely rebuilt at a 00:32:19
different elevation. So there's oh, I got you. Yeah. OK. There's no access. 00:32:25
And in this picture you can see there was recently. 00:32:33
A resident out in the area that tried to cross, you can see his vehicle out there. I think we have a little better picture of it. 00:32:37
Yeah, there it is. 00:32:44
Fortunately, he was able to get. 00:32:47
I think it's great that they left the truck there for a sign. If they tend to drive around the sign, there's a second one for 00:32:54
them. 00:32:57
Presentation. 00:33:03
So, hi, Merle. Wanted me to just go a little bit more into scheduling and budget. So I'll do that real quickly. 00:33:05
Mr. Chair, if I may to also to on the on the updates on the photos that you have. I understand that they'll be I'll be able to be 00:33:13
on the website here soon so the constituents that want to keep up with the project will be able to see. 00:33:22
Pictures like that. 00:33:33
From the drones as updated once a month, is that correct? Yes, that's correct. And we'll be linking it to our county website, so. 00:33:34
All the citizens of the county can see every monthly update. You can click back and see prior months and compare but it will be a 00:33:43
top down image with also with those images we had. 00:33:50
Different angles embedded into that so you can click on them if you want to, to see different perspectives of the project, yeah. 00:33:57
When, when that's up and going. If you'd let me know, I'd appreciate it. And what the website would be because it would keep a lot 00:34:04
of looky loos out of the construction site. Perhaps if they know they can go on their computer and get updates and not, you know, 00:34:12
be driving there to see how it's going today and as well as people that aren't close to that area. 00:34:19
Will be able to keep up the interest and things on that. So when you when you come up with that, please let me know and I'll share 00:34:27
it at my public meetings. 00:34:32
Thank you. If you would copy all of us, that'd be great. 00:34:39
So this is just a really big overview of the project we started in. Notice to proceed September 1st. 00:34:43
Ames is anticipating the decor around October of this year and then we hope to wrap up in March of 2024. 00:34:51
Just breaking it down a little bit more, there's basically 3 phases of construction. We're currently in phase one. 00:35:02
Which can is most most of the earth work and the actual bridge construction. 00:35:09
Phase two will be some more the roadway improvements and then phase three is just finishing the tie ends. 00:35:14
Seeding the project and. 00:35:22
Finishing the. 00:35:24
And then again, March 2024 is our estimated completion. 00:35:26
This just kind of shows the different phases. This is phase one. It shows in what's hash mark. It's a little hard to see, but it 00:35:31
just shows what they're building right now in phase one. 00:35:37
And then this will be phases 2 and three which will wrap up the project. 00:35:45
I just threw this slide in just as a reminder that the grant that we got from Federal Highway was $21,095,564. 00:35:53
Heila County's contribution was two 2,825,000. 00:36:03
Agents contract 21,094,000 We as of December estimate we have paid AIMS 3,334,819 dollars. 00:36:09
So that's 16%. The next slide, over 16% of the funds have been paid to A. 00:36:21
And time wise were 19% completed with the 390 days. 00:36:29
And that's all we have. 00:36:37
Hey, question Supervisor Humphrey. 00:36:39
Yes. Oh, any questions? You had a question. 00:36:43
No, my questions were just an update of when I can let the constituents know, they can keep up with that. 00:36:51
On that, yeah. On the other there's there's no other questions. I appreciate you working diligently to try to work through the 00:36:58
difficulties that are thrown at you and and you know sometimes it's easier to. 00:37:05
To to just go forward with it, even though it's a bitter taste. So yeah, we don't agree with everything a dot is but a dot. You 00:37:12
know we we're paying a dot to administer the project and we sometimes we just have to get to resolution and keep the job moving. 00:37:19
Right. Thank you very much. Thank you supervisor, client. 00:37:26
Thank you guys for for bringing this up and presenting this this, this is good information to us and I'm sure anything we can do 00:37:34
home Maryland, James will be hitting us up if we can help. 00:37:40
Push this along. 00:37:45
Yeah, I'm on your side. I don't agree with what a dot's doing as far as the construction partner with the contractors, but. 00:37:49
We'll see what happens. 00:37:57
Thank you. Yeah, thank you. James, do you have anything Mr. I'd like some clarification if I could on the whole getting additional 00:37:59
clearance for. 00:38:05
The project. 00:38:12
So there's an environmental component of that that to get the permits, there's an environmental component. We've done the 00:38:15
environmental have that established for years actually. So right now. 00:38:20
The project isn't. 00:38:27
Is it sitting? Is it being delayed? Because we're waiting on this environmental clearance. The Gabion basket work is being 00:38:29
delayed. Other work is ongoing. 00:38:34
Can I say something about that? It gave me a basket. Work isn't the critical path though. The critical path is the drill shafts 00:38:41
which those are getting delayed due to weather. 00:38:45
I guess. 00:38:54
In the discussion discussion of discussing with Paddy Power with Washington DC getting this clearance. 00:38:56
I'm concerned with whatever delays that may result from this and right now we're getting delays based on the weather, but if there 00:39:04
is a delay? 00:39:08
Based on getting environmental clearances. 00:39:13
What does that come to and or does that come as far as cost, potential cost to the county and you may have stated that, but I 00:39:17
missed it so right now. 00:39:22
The. 00:39:27
Charging us 25,000 a month. 00:39:30
For the updated biological. 00:39:32
That's what they they submitted this about two weeks ago to. 00:39:36
And it's mainly equipment standby issues. 00:39:40
They have equipment standing by because they can't build the gabion baskets. 00:39:43
And they estimated that's costing them $25,000 a month. 00:39:48
Passing aims 25,000 a month, yes, and that's primarily equipment standby. 00:39:56
So they've got equipment out on the project, it can't be utilized. 00:40:04
There's a there's a cost for that. 00:40:08
Yes, Sir, Romero. 00:40:15
County manager is asking for what? What's it costing us? 00:40:22
We want to be able to work in the channel before the monsoons. 00:40:59
OK. And take care of that because once the monsoons get started, now we're going to have not $25,000 a month, but two. But then 00:41:03
they would have all their gear out there. Right now they have limited amount of gear. They're just getting started. 00:41:09
In the summertime they're going to have everything out there, and every day that stops will be $250,000 a month, not $25,000 a 00:41:15
month. 00:41:20
OK, and that's what we need to worry about. And so we've drafted a letter for you, James, that says, hey, reduce the 135 days if 00:41:25
you can, but don't dare go over the 135 days, because that's going to be a big problem. 00:41:31
And and so we need to pursue that. We have written the letter perhaps for your signature Jane, but we can easily change it to the 00:41:38
chairman signature or we can have Patty work with the letter to see what she can do with the the department of Interior clarity on 00:41:45
the on anyone from the board signing. We'd have to have an agendaized item and all that and if time is of the essence. 00:41:52
Then we need to get this moving as quickly as possible. Who is it that grants the environmental clearance? 00:42:00
Watching him to see who is it Fish and Wildlife Service. 00:42:08
US Fish and Wildlife. 00:42:12
So I got a question, and this is a is. I'm going to throw this out here thinking about it. James, you're doing good. 00:42:17
Homeroom there's there's nothing saying that that biological opinions gonna come back in our favor. 00:42:26
What then? 00:42:33
Start thinking about that. I would. 00:42:37
How about that? What happens? 00:42:40
Again, they've been. 00:42:44
And they may find something and we would need to move it. 00:42:46
We need to find. We need to find what? That's a. That's a valid question. 00:42:52
Yeah, I, you know, I'm sitting here listening to this and, you know, it's hard for me to fathom that would be the case after all 00:42:56
the analysis has been done. And that's great, but it it could happen. 00:43:02
Mr. Decline, I'm these environmental things. They can get stuck in the muck and mud for a long time and it's a big concern. 00:43:09
Absolutely nice here. If I may go ahead also too is. 00:43:17
In order to have a letter signed by the board, it has to be an agenda item, but as an individual board member, I can write a 00:43:25
letter anytime I want to, correct? 00:43:30
Yes. So if if each supervisor decided to write a letter, then it wouldn't have to wait for an agenda. 00:43:36
To go to wherever it needs to go. 00:43:43
Asking for help, absolutely. 00:43:47
Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, you're very welcome. And you know, we do have a very hard working and anxious 00:43:50
Representative Eli Crane now. So that that could possibly be a benefit toward this process. So supervisor, client, you have 00:43:55
anything else right now? 00:44:00
No, Sir. 00:44:06
We'll move forward, OK. I appreciate the presentation. 00:44:10
And all of that, I think you guys are doing the best. You can really appreciate that. So anything else? No, we're good. 00:44:15
Thanks. Thank you. 00:44:22
Agenda Item 2B Information Discussion regarding the creation of a Gila County environmental health ordinance. Michael O'Driscoll 00:44:28
and Josh Beck it looks like. 00:44:32
Good morning, Chairman and Board of Supervisors. So back in August of last year, we came in front of you during a work session to 00:44:38
propose the idea of creating an EH ordinance and you gave us some ideas of direction. 00:44:44
And we're back in front of you again to present this with some of the changes that and ideas that you recommended back in August. 00:44:52
And just a really quick recap, this project is, is basically taking everything we do now with our two delegation agreements. 00:45:00
With the state health department, which is food inspections, children camp inspections, school inspections, those kinds of things. 00:45:09
And our delegation agreement ADEQ, which is our on site wastewater program. So what we're doing is just combining them into one 00:45:16
document. So we're really not recreating the wheel here at all because we're limited in what we can do based on those delegation 00:45:22
agreements, the administrative code and the state statutes. 00:45:28
So basically, before this document, we were pulling from 7 or 8 different parts of the state statutes and administrative code. If 00:45:34
somebody had a question about what our activities were doing, So we believe that combining everything into one document is going 00:45:40
to increase. 00:45:45
Transparency for everybody in Gila County as far as what we do. 00:45:51
In the health department with food safety, school inspections, pools and spas and those kinds of things and the on site wastewater 00:45:56
program and increased transparency is never a bad thing. And to make it easier for anybody to figure out if you have this 00:46:04
violation, these are the steps of the state administrative code and state statute calls for us to follow. So we've done this. 00:46:13
And if you remember back in August, one of the challenges we had was to figure out not-for-profit, the not-for-profit fee 00:46:22
structure. 00:46:26
So our goal here for the fees in 2005, the last that was the last time the Board of Supervisors approved a fee schedule for 00:46:30
environmental health. So it's it's outdated considerably and it's also very complicated. We have over 20 different types of food 00:46:38
permits. So what we've done is we've shrunk it down to four different types of food permits and we've related that those four 00:46:46
types of foods based on risk. In other words, the risk one is convenience store, but a risk 4 is a full sit down restaurant. 00:46:55
Theory behind this is the risk for has more perishable foods, a lot more preparation pre preparation, so it's a higher risk so we 00:47:04
spend more time in those facilities doing the inspections. 00:47:09
So we've reduced the number of food permits considerably down to four risk types. And then we also have additional permits, 00:47:15
temporary events, those kinds of things which are typical. 00:47:20
And so we did that and then what we have done is we've asked the County Attorney for their opinion on not-for-profit fees and so. 00:47:26
Mr. Jeff Dalton is going to. 00:47:35
Give his opinion here because the issue is is is not for profits. Can we reduce the fees? Can we exempt the fees or do we have to 00:47:38
charge them the full price? 00:47:42
So those are the three options that I've presented to Mr. Dalton and he's here to give his opinion on that so. 00:47:47
So the issue with regard to. 00:47:55
Giving a reduced C. 00:47:58
Anyone whether a non profit. 00:48:01
Anybody else is that? 00:48:04
You run into the issue of the gift clause of the Constitution. 00:48:06
Which has two prongs in order to satisfy it. 00:48:11
One is there has to be a public. 00:48:15
And the second is that it has to. 00:48:18
Provide direct benefits in return that are not disproportionate. 00:48:25
So it's the easiest way to look at whether something is providing A forbidden subsidy. 00:48:30
Is to look and see what is being given by. 00:48:36
And what is being received back from the person who's receiving the subsidy in return? And it would be difficult for the county to 00:48:40
show. 00:48:45
That there was some kind of direct benefit that was. 00:48:52
Not just disproportionate. 00:48:56
And I would reduce fee situation unless there was a guarantee. 00:48:59
From the. 00:49:03
The entity that's getting the reduced fee. 00:49:04
Of a return, and some of the cases in the Supreme Court make it clear that. 00:49:08
The projected increased tax revenue. 00:49:14
Does not count, it's a valueless. 00:49:17
Item to be considered or generalized. Hope for economic benefit is also a valueless. 00:49:20
Thing to consider. So for example in this situation you have a couple of hospitals that are in the county that are not not for. 00:49:29
So if you want to give them reduced. 00:49:36
Fees, then they would need to guarantee something in return. For example, they're going to provide. 00:49:40
Healthcare services to county employees That reduced the cost, which would save the county money in for providing healthcare. 00:49:48
To the employees, that would be a direct benefit that would be countable. 00:49:56
In a reduced fee situation without some sort of guarantee. 00:50:01
From the recipient giving something back to the. 00:50:06
Then the county's taking a risk of violating the gift clause. 00:50:10
Thank you, Jeff. 00:50:16
So, so with those guidelines I think we'll be able to sit down with the County Attorney with some of the not for profits and and 00:50:18
identify those that might be able to offer services under the guidance of the County Attorney and when we do come back for the 00:50:24
final vote with the board have a plan in place. 00:50:30
To offer up for the not for profits that will. 00:50:37
Offer a solution. 00:50:41
Gift clause issue as well as what some of the not for profits do provide Kilo County and its residents. So that's a little murky 00:50:43
for us right now with that definition. But I will stop right here and and have any questions that you may have. Mr. Chair, you 00:50:50
know supervisor client. So Michael when it comes to these fees for this. 00:50:57
Is there something from the state that tells us how much we we have to charge or as they come up to us to adopt what our fees are 00:51:04
gonna be? It's up to us to adopt the fees, however, it cannot make a profit, let's say right on. So if we make those fees low 00:51:10
enough for 8 grand, the world can pay for it. We're good, right? 00:51:15
You can do that, Sir. 00:51:22
That gift clause is one that just keeps on giving and it irritates the hell out of me and so and I know it's just Jeff lawyer and 00:51:24
he's got tell us that but I sure don't like it. Yeah we're going to come up with a solution and and stump them when we do come 00:51:31
back next time because as far as as far as we're concerned for the entire project this is this is the last sticking point before 00:51:38
we bring it in front of the board. So I think we'll come up and sit down with Jeff and and. 00:51:45
Throw some ideas out and then I'll sit down with the county manager, Mr. Menlo, and see from there. Thank you, Michael. 00:51:53
And then what I'd like to do is call up Josh back and he'll sort of go over really quickly to finances for the environmental 00:52:00
health side, the food side of things. And after that, I'll call up Jake Garrett to sort of describe the on South Wastewater 00:52:07
portion. There have been a couple of rule changes at the state very recently. So we've incorporated those and he's just going to 00:52:14
go over that really quick. So OK, maybe before he does that, I'll ask Supervisor Humphrey if he has any comments or questions at. 00:52:21
Jonah. Mr. Chair. Thank you, but I know. OK. All right. Thank you, Josh. 00:52:28
And I got the easy part here. I'm just going to kind of go over the money with everyone here. So good morning, Chairman and four 00:52:35
supervisors. 00:52:38
We've looked at all the other counties pretty in detail because we've had this before the board for what, a year, two years now, 00:52:43
and we've been watching these other counties and how they've been doing. 00:52:49
Fees, and quite a few of them do this new fee schedule where it's based on those disparities one through 4. 00:52:56
Tier 3 or a tier one, and it'll be a lot more straightforward. So a lot of people are going to see less fees because they're not 00:53:34
paying multiple fees. And then those people, those establishments that have a higher risk factor might actually see an increase 00:53:42
because we're going to be out to those locations more like Mr. Driscoll said. So real quick, let me show you where we were at. So 00:53:50
I pulled the numbers for the last two fiscal years almost identical. So just so you guys understand where we're at. 00:53:57
We pulled in $416,556 in revenue. 00:54:06
And our expenditures were 502,000. So the other part to add to that, so those are all the revenues from all the fees and 00:54:12
everything we've done. We actually have a $46,000 grant that comes from the Arizona Department Health Services for Smoke free, 00:54:18
which is we get extra money. So that when we're out meeting with the establishments, hotels and motels, anybody that we're doing 00:54:24
business with or if we actually get complaints, we work and educate or work to resolve complaints around smoke free and we receive 00:54:30
that funding each year so. 00:54:36
Just straight looking at the obvious numbers. 00:54:42
We're operating about $50,000 under what we're collecting in fees. That's just obviously the cost that we see on our end. And the 00:54:45
health department, if you look at the county's cost allocation plan and look at the environmental health that was on the health 00:54:50
side and the environmental health that was with public works before. So the on site wastewater, both programs are looking at 40 or 00:54:56
$50,000 in indirect sitting of services from other departments, finance and everyone else that they're doing on behalf of you know 00:55:02
public health with all these. 00:55:08
Transactions and everything that we do. So somewhere if you're looking at that probably running around 150,000 under what we're 00:55:14
collecting in fees. 00:55:18
Not that that's a good thing or a bad thing, that's for you to decide. But so that you understand as we move forward and we look 00:55:23
at these fees, that's about where we're at right now. 00:55:27
Thank you. Josh, were you going to make another comment, just one, one clarification, the fees that we've the revenues generated 00:55:35
from the fees that Josh was talking about are both the on site wastewater and the food program combined. So that's what both 00:55:41
programs combined. OK. Thank you for that Supervisor Humphrey. 00:55:48
No questions. OK. Super calling. I'm good. Thank you very. Thank you. James, you have any comments? 00:55:55
Or clarification? 00:56:03
No. OK, thanks. So appreciate this. I do remember the last work session that we did have. And so it's a great thing that we're 00:56:05
putting all these together. So as far as fees go, I think we need to be responsible to our taxpayers, but also not look at it as 00:56:12
well. We just need to break even all the time or make some money at it. So it's a balance. And so I look forward to our next 00:56:19
meeting and what you come up with for solutions to make. 00:56:27
All of this affordable generally to the public without there being a lot of inequity from. 00:56:35
Pre-existing business versus a new business or anything like that. So OK. Thanks, Josh. 00:56:41
Jake, how are you? Well, I'm doing good this morning. Supervisors and. 00:56:50
Mr. Dalton, Mr. Menlove, Ladies, the on site wastewater program last time we updated our ordinance was in 2014, so the fees for on 00:56:55
site wastewater were updated at that time as well as the ordinance. 00:57:03
This. 00:57:12
I'll call it an adventure to merge the wastewater fees into the environmental health document code. I think was a very. It was 00:57:14
very. 00:57:19
That was a good. 00:57:26
Leave it at that. And during this, this time, we took the opportunity to include. 00:57:28
Or to incorporate, I'll say many of the practices that have been involved since I became with the county, such as the. 00:57:36
Was a soil test that was done or a perk test that was done in the 1980s? 00:57:47
When I started it was considered to be invalid, but we've never had that in writing. Now it's in writing. So anything that was 00:57:52
done since in in 1990 or more recent is considered to be valid. At least the data is valid, provided the test is all there. So 00:58:00
that's that kind of thing has now been incorporated into the words of the ordinance. 00:58:09
There were also some. 00:58:17
82 things in 82 rule that. 00:58:18
Where we wanted to rely on at a local level and that when you look to things that you really had to do more with how people 00:58:24
operate their systems and things that lead to environmental nuisances that we end up having to enforce. And we incorporated the 00:58:32
words from Adqs, from the rules, state rules into our ordinance such that we could handle that on a local level. 00:58:40
Very cleanly and with the hearing officers here, as opposed to actually having to go through a process that involves attorneys. 00:58:48
And all kinds of things with the state. So that that cleans up our ability to actually have a handle environmental nuisances very 00:58:57
nicely at a local level. 00:59:03
The. 00:59:10
A. No charge permit for routine work and the reason we did that is this the routine work. 00:59:14
Typically what happens, what is typically done in routine work is a Leech pipe itself, not a leach line, not the gravel. But the 00:59:24
leach pipe can get clogged with roots or clogged with sediments, and that pipe gets replaced and things work just fine. 00:59:33
Now it may work just fine, or it may not work just fine, but what we found. 00:59:42
Kind of lots and lots and lots of times is that people who've had their Leech pipe replaced come into the office and say, well, 00:59:49
gosh, I got a new Leech line that, you know, just recently, everything ought to be just fine. And it turns out that as we Snoop 00:59:55
around, we find that somebody did something. We have no idea what they did. And then they seem to start asking questions. You'll 01:00:02
go, oh, well, gosh, that was just routine work. That was just replacing a pipe, then nothing else. And as a consequence, they 01:00:08
don't have an expanded leach system. 01:00:15
They just got it just got working better. So we put in what we call the routine work permit which is a no charge permit that 01:00:22
anybody who's doing routine work we ask them now to call us and let us know they're doing it. Now they're we're going to just do 01:00:29
the issue a quick permit through tracking that says yeah we're doing that. So we have record that that took place. That's very 01:00:37
that's the the simple purpose of that and we're also going to do something similar to that. 01:00:44
In with the Tri-City Sanitary district, when they start to actually install sewer lines, they'll be providing to community 01:00:52
development a a map of what they're doing. We'll use that map, but we're going to also put a put a note in track at that. So it's 01:01:00
a no charge note that says hey we're taking activity on that so there is record of that. 01:01:08
Those are the, those are the. 01:01:17
Things would fall under the routine work side of it in the designer section. 01:01:20
In looking at what the state is now teaching in terms of. 01:01:26
Allowing individual contractors, non I'll call them non credentialed contractors. They have Roc licenses but not PDS or registered 01:01:32
sanitarians. 01:01:37
There those. 01:01:43
Credentialed people are being taught how to do the design for low pressure. 01:01:46
Leaching systems, so it's deliver. 01:01:53
Delivering wastewater effluent from a septic tank to Leech lines under pressure and victim pump calculations et cetera. And so we 01:01:56
thought it now is an appropriate time then to expand the things that our contractors can do provided they have that education. So 01:02:04
we put that allowed that additional piece of work that they can, that our contractors can do in the ordinance. 01:02:12
With respect to money. 01:02:22
We in in 2014, we adopted an hourly rate the same as community development when we were with community development at the time. So 01:02:24
we adopted their hourly rate and it was 50 bucks an hour. It seems very low. So we've upped our average. In this ordinance we've 01:02:32
upped our hourly rate to $75.00 an hour, which is more in line with the the cost and the overhead of of all of our people 01:02:39
combined. 01:02:47
And. 01:02:54
That caused a couple of other fees to go up someone the soil test went up to 225 from $160.00. So to cover the time that's there 01:02:57
and that increase in the hourly rate. So that's an example of that. Other than that. 01:03:05
No, no fee increases. 01:03:15
And. 01:03:16
Well, I think that's it. That's the that's really the crux of what we've done. So I certainly open to any questions and. 01:03:19
Happy to address anything you might have. 01:03:27
Supervisor Humphrey, do you have anything for Jake? 01:03:30
No, Jake, I don't. And Michael and gosh, all of you guys, I appreciate you guys working on updating policies to make them easier 01:03:33
to read and easier to understand. So if I read them, if you read them, if a constituent reads them. 01:03:41
Everybody's on the same page and just trying to make it function better. So my hat's off to you guys for helping us with some of 01:03:49
these older policies to to get them lined out. I appreciate it very much. Thank you. You bet. Thank you. Supervisor Klein. Thank 01:03:55
you, Mr. Chair. Jake, good to see you. Thanks. Absolutely. If you tell me we're heading in the right direction with this and I'm 01:04:02
good, I believe we're heading in the right direction. So. All right. Thank you, guys. Thank you too, Josh. Michael. That's good. 01:04:08
Let's make it look clear. 01:04:14
Yeah. Thank you, Jake. And I did want to point out we have a couple of our people in Payson watching the meeting. So we appreciate 01:04:21
your presence as well. 01:04:26
You bet. That's the environmental health staff. We want that to. 01:04:32
Yeah. 01:04:38
And. 01:04:41
Yeah, great. 01:04:44
Anything else, Michael? 01:04:46
Thank you very much. Alright. 01:04:48
Well, thank you for that presentation. Appreciate that. Let's go on to item. 01:04:51
To see information discretion regarding revenues other than property and excise taxes. 01:04:56
James Man. 01:05:05
Mr. Chairman. 01:05:19
Members of the board, good morning. We are in the process of. 01:05:23
Getting close to starting our 2324 budget. 01:05:29
It's hard to believe that we roll around so quickly and. 01:05:33
Marin is gung ho and ready to get started at it. 01:05:38
She devotes a lot of time. She and her staff do a lot of time, energy to putting it all together and make sure everything ties 01:05:44
together and that we are. 01:05:48
Building a budget that. 01:05:54
Agreeance with you as Board of Supervisors. 01:06:00
One point I wanted to make it and this related to revenues as as I have my discussion, as we go through this discussion today, I'm 01:06:06
really expecting that you have to make a lot of comments, but maybe some questions, but as we build this as we meet with 01:06:11
departments going forward. 01:06:16
Wanted to. 01:06:23
Bring this to you at a high level of our revenues for 2324 budget. 01:06:24
And what things that perhaps we should be considering as we look at our budget for the next fiscal year? 01:06:30
One of those is charges for services that has been discussed and. 01:06:39
The discussion of that we can't reduce. 01:06:45
A charge for service. 01:06:49
License or permit or something like that, because it's. 01:06:51
Against the gift clause. 01:06:56
That's included the Arizona Constitution, Jeff, I'm not gonna there's just my I'm just gonna express my opinion. So. 01:06:59
It's not a personal attempt for me. 01:07:06
OK, all right, we're braced. 01:07:10
In 11 Title 11, which is Arizona Counties Title 11254 Contribution for Economic Development. 01:07:14
Now this is a statute that is a. 01:07:22
Would appear to be in direct conflict with the Arizona Constitution, it states, in addition to any other provision of the law. 01:07:25
Provisional law which is there of the. 01:07:36
The Board of Supervisors may appropriate from the general fund each year up to 1,500,000 dollars $1.5 million. 01:07:39
For the purpose of economic development activity which is operated and maintained within the boundaries of the county. 01:07:50
And which the board Germans to be for the benefit of the public? 01:07:58
For the benefit of the public, that's why we brought some of these together and Jessica always make sure we say before the benefit 01:08:05
of the public that is statutory required. 01:08:09
Contributions may be made to any governmental agency or to a nonprofit corporation which enjoys and maintains federal tax exempt 01:08:16
status, as long as all monies are utilized for the purposes. 01:08:22
Determined to be for the public good by the Board. If more than one nonprofit corporation is selected for a fiscal year, the board 01:08:29
shall determine the portion of the money that each will receive. 01:08:36
So for nonprofits, you can do $5000 or thousand dollars, $200, whatever is determined for the good of the public. 01:08:43
In an economic development type of thing, now we have a number of different types of nonprofits. We've got hospitals. They're 01:08:52
almost always all nonprofits. 01:08:56
But they are. They're in the business to make money and they're not in the business. 01:09:02
Do you like a senior? 01:09:10
Or our food bank, that is, that we have in our communities things that survive on donations and contributions. 01:09:12
From all different sources. 01:09:21
So I just want to say as as we go forward and looking at our revenues and see our inclined that discussion of can we put our fees 01:09:24
really low. 01:09:28
So we don't have to worry about this. I'm going to be contrary to that and say we need to charge for our fees what they what we 01:09:33
should and what we can because that's a statutory revenue for us. 01:09:40
And well, we'll go into that discussion, but I. 01:09:48
What would appear to be a direct conflict in the law, one in the Constitution, which our legal counsel says the Constitution 01:09:56
Trump's all other statutes. 01:10:00
But why is there what appears to be a direct conflict in our in our state laws? 01:10:05
Surely the legislature intended for counties. This is a statute directly for counties, counties to be able. 01:10:14
Work with the. 01:10:22
To be able. 01:10:26
Use taxpayer dollars to use resources to benefit the citizens of Gilbert. 01:10:28
In a way that is determined to be for public purse by by the county boards who advisors. 01:10:36
My opinion and I just want to make sure that. 01:10:43
Legal is one thing, and they've got to be very black and white, very strict about this. 01:10:49
My my opinion is there's a drug conflict. 01:10:57
Between the two could potentially be a direct conflict, but the way you need. 01:11:00
Utilize the tools that are given to us judiciously to benefit the public, which I know each of you as the board. That is your 01:11:05
intent and that's why you're here. 01:11:09
Why you go through all? 01:11:14
Anyway, oh James, I just think it's important that we see the full. 01:11:16
And then as a board, we decide how we want to proceed with our personal. 01:11:21
Interpretations of all these things. So any questions from the board at this point? 01:11:28
I've got one. OK, so I love work sessions. 01:11:33
So, so James I I've always wondered and I've thought about this and I thought about it and so when we talk about fee for services. 01:11:38
I'm going to use you Jake as an example. You're here. I'll I'll use you as an example. 01:11:47
But Jay goes out and he does the the soil tests and and all that and puts all these things together. 01:11:52
Whether, Whether Jake. 01:12:00
Received money for from a permit to do that or not, Jake is paid. 01:12:04
It doesn't matter. His salary is paid and so I've always. 01:12:11
Had this thing about, OK, we're we're charging extra money to do these things when basically every staff member in this room, no 01:12:18
matter what they're doing, they're paid. 01:12:24
How? How? How did that come to be? You know, I guess I I'm going back to the same old thing. We pay taxes for what I guess is what 01:12:34
I'm asking. 01:12:39
And that's that's a luxury this work session. I can ask that question. 01:12:44
Yes, you certainly may surely find Mr. Chairman, Sergeant Klein. 01:12:50
That is the debate. 01:12:55
That is a question of we are entitled. 01:12:57
Allowed by state statute to charge for certain services. 01:13:01
Even though that same person that comes in and gets a building permit and environmental health permit, whatever that permit might 01:13:05
be. 01:13:09
Someone might come and do that. They're paying taxes, more than likely. 01:13:14
But my statute because. 01:13:19
Someone that's contractor may come in from out of county and is not. 01:13:22
Taxes and so we are allowed by state statutes to charge for that. So, so like what I heard Michael and and and them say earlier 01:13:26
they they're you know they collect 400 and some $1000 in fees or whatever. 01:13:35
What if we didn't collect? 01:13:44
Is it going to make us go bankrupt? 01:13:47
To where we would have to raise taxes to cover our costs. Or is or are we? 01:13:50
I'm not putting, I am kind of putting you on the spot I guess. So that's why I'm here in front of you to have this dry and so. So 01:13:57
that's the dilemma. I mean when I, when I hear you know fees for services and and whatnot, what if we didn't charge those fees? 01:14:05
You know and emergency health stuff is 400 and some $1000 in the hole. 01:14:14
What are we looking at as a county if if we do things like that? 01:14:22
I'll tell you now that if we were to do away with all of our fees. 01:14:26
We would be laying. 01:14:31
I was trying to. I was going through my thoughts and putting this together in the wee hours of this morning. So my My Thinker is a 01:14:36
little bit slow, but we could be in the neighborhood 40 to 50 pink slips to lay people off. And so that's that's really. 01:14:45
What it is and our wages are. 01:14:54
We would not be able to afford any salary adjustments for employees. And that's what I'm digging for, James. That's why that's why 01:14:58
I'm asking this question because you know, as a board, you know for for the years that I've been on this board, we've always been. 01:15:05
We've always been serious about keeping our taxes flat. We have not wanted to raise taxes, but in a sense this fee for services is 01:15:16
a tax. 01:15:21
I Mr. Chairman, Mr. Klein, I would disagree. Charges for services and not a tax. 01:15:30
Taxes. 01:15:36
To all. 01:15:38
A permit, building permit, or whatever might be you're getting specific service. 01:15:42
Rather than general. 01:15:48
See, that's always been my mental block for me personally is because I I've always had it in the back of my mind. We pay taxes and 01:15:50
and So what? 01:15:55
What? As a taxpaying citizen, everyone of us in this room, what are we getting? 01:16:00
And and that's where I've been trying to look and see where that balance is out, you know that's why. 01:16:05
We might go through that just a little bit here, OK. 01:16:13
A little bit to see what some of the General Services are that are provided. 01:16:16
No, that's good. 01:16:21
Thank you, James. 01:16:22
If I could add just my perspective on that that as as an individual. 01:16:24
Business or otherwise comes to the county to have something permitted. 01:16:31
That means that they're doing something that the general public is not doing at the same point in time. 01:16:37
Perhaps it's building a home, perhaps it's having a restaurant established and so the privilege of conducting business like that. 01:16:45
And having a fee associated with it then alleviates the general population from having to make up that difference. 01:16:55
And because. 01:17:04
Opening a restaurant, they're not doing that, so they have a reasonable fee. 01:17:06
To offset. 01:17:11
Someones request for something specific to me makes sense as long as it's. 01:17:14
Let's say not exorbitant or viewed as a punitive thing. 01:17:19
OK. Anything else? Yeah. OK. I love work sessions. So. So with that thought though Steve, with with my, my my theory is is is a 01:17:23
lot of times when it's a business or or they're building a house or they're building whatever, we're going to collect taxes off 01:17:30
that. 01:17:36
Right. I mean they're going to measure, we're going to, we're going to be collecting revenues off most most things out there that 01:17:44
we would. 01:17:48
Other than Jake's maybe assert systems, I don't know about that, but but for a lot of this stuff we will be receiving revenues off 01:17:53
of whatever it is we're permitting. 01:17:58
That's so this. 01:18:04
It's something to think. 01:18:08
Or we love work sessions. Yeah, to have this discussion. 01:18:11
OK. If I could in in fiscal year 2021, these are the revenues that we had for the general fund. 01:18:16
Taxes, license, and permits intergovernmental. 01:18:25
Charges for services, fines and forfeits, donations, country and contributions. 01:18:29
Investment. 01:18:35
Other miscellaneous a total of 68 and a half million dollars. 01:18:37
So as was mentioned, for property taxes, which is quite a bit less than that, but there's different taxing sources that are 01:18:44
included in that. 01:18:48
But we want to keep those flat. We're we're limited on our county sales tax, excise tax at 1/2 of 1%. 01:18:53
We. 01:19:02
We get state shared sales tax from a very complicated, complicated and convoluted formula that they distribute money. 01:19:06
From State shared sales. 01:19:15
But I. 01:19:18
If we could look at the. 01:19:20
Consider it considering the other ones besides the ones that. 01:19:22
The larger ones, but the ones that are upfront and foremost on most of our minds. 01:19:26
The licenses and permits charges for services. 01:19:33
Finds a forfeit. Souls are generally corked, fines, court fees, and. 01:19:37
And so those are established by the state through the administrative office court. We don't have a lot of saying that. 01:19:43
Though the courts. 01:19:50
And I know I've noticed this always, that the courts administered and. 01:19:54
Administer those FIN. 01:20:00
Fees and for. 01:20:03
They can make a decision as to whether somebody needs to pay that or not. 01:20:06
And they can waive a fine completely or make somebody pay. It's if we look at our two courts that we have here in Gila County, 01:20:10
they're very different. 01:20:16
Even though they're very similar in size and the number of. 01:20:23
Items that are processed through each. 01:20:28
Donations, contributions are other things and then a bunch of miscellaneous. But for license, prevent charges for services, if we 01:20:32
could consider those. 01:20:37
Budget licenses, permits we have. 01:20:42
5 to 4 departments that we have from those that are. 01:20:46
The franchise fees are that are coming through the Board of Supervisors even franchise fees we. 01:20:52
Charge some of those, but then they're even. Those are. 01:20:59
Some we are able to charge to and some that we are. 01:21:02
And there are some inconsistencies there. Community development. 01:21:06
And we spoke about building permits. 01:21:11
Health department for restaurants and wastewater and those types of things. 01:21:14
And swing out. 01:21:18
Rabies in animal control. Now these are just numbers are just. 01:21:21
They really don't have any any meaning but it by statute. 01:21:27
What we are allowed as a county and. 01:21:31
You as a Board of Supervisors allowed. 01:21:34
To charge up to as Michael I think stated that we are not going to make. 01:21:38
Money. But we can charge up to what the cost of providing that service is, and those are specified by statute. So for those four 01:21:43
departments, the cost of $3.8 million and $825,000. 01:21:51
So we have not looked at these. 01:21:59
We were behind on our audits, behind our financial statements. We needed to get that part of our house in order before we can 01:22:04
really bring this up and be able to know that we have solid information, solid data. 01:22:08
But we are to that point and so we, the administration, finance and others are digging into this and that's why I want to make 01:22:14
sure that you're aware of being able to provide that information to you. 01:22:21
He was abort and decide what the fees are, what you're going to charge. 01:22:28
However, it's our responsibility of staff to let you know what that information is so you can make informed decisions on what 01:22:33
which direction you want to go and that's we go in the direction of the board specifies in. 01:22:40
Decides to go, so license permits $825,000 in revenue. 01:22:48
Budgeted revenues. 01:22:54
And 3.8 million of expenses, is there some room that those licenses and permits could be increased? There is? 01:22:55
I've this is I've taken this to other boards and supervisors licenses and permits. 01:23:06
They there's a lot of kickback, a lot of people that are against anything which I'm sure. 01:23:11
You realize and. 01:23:20
So bringing this up is. 01:23:22
Going to be a can of worms. 01:23:25
Charges for services we have from the General Fund Elections, the Recorder's Office. 01:23:28
The Sheriff's Office, Peace and Justice court Again, there's these are budgeted revenues but so pacing that budgeted $90,000 in 01:23:34
charges for services. 01:23:39
The Globe Justice Court did. 01:23:44
Budget, anything. 01:23:47
For these revenues, both of the constables about a similar amount the health department and public fiduciary. 01:23:49
So total budget revenue is 886. 01:23:58
Those departments, there are budgets of $18 million. 01:24:02
So is there room to? 01:24:08
Potentially defray some of. 01:24:10
Costs per. 01:24:14
There's room for discussion and this has not been brought up. I don't know. I would be surprised if it's been brought up for 01:24:17
decades. 01:24:21
Not years. 01:24:26
Any any questions about these charges for services, licenses and fees? 01:24:31
Of us taking a look at those. 01:24:38
And it's kind of it. We're having a. 01:24:40
A leadership team meeting on February 15th. Happy birthday to me. 01:24:42
On that day so. 01:24:48
Yeah, I don't know how that happened, but. 01:24:52
We want to roll this out, but that we're going to be looking at these of what the charges for services are and what we can charge 01:24:56
and what we can pay them. And so as we talk about this, I want to make sure that you're aware that we're going to have this 01:25:03
discussion with departments, with elected officials, department directors and being able to look at the details of what. 01:25:10
Their budgets are of what revenues? How we can match up expense, certain expenditures for those Supervisor Humphrey, any questions 01:25:17
if that's? 01:25:21
I guess I don't have any questions right now other than I'm glad that you're opening that can of worms and the reason beings is. 01:25:29
Someone asked, Well, why do you charge? 01:25:38
For this, well, we're able to charge fees. Well, to me that's not an answer, but by opening this and kind of creating a formula 01:25:41
and see if there's room to decrease or or have to increase charges, at least there'll be a formula, a formula that I will be able 01:25:48
to explain to constituents. It's like, OK, why are you charging me $45.00 for this? Well, it's like, OK, here, here's, here's 01:25:56
where we're at, here's what it costs us to operate. Here's what we're it will charge. So, so that's how we came up. 01:26:04
With a particular number because from what you're saying is right now we're charging fees and we maybe we've been charging them 01:26:11
because we've been charging that for the last 20 years and we just took a 5% increase. But we really don't know why we're charging 01:26:17
that amount of money for that particular service. 01:26:23
So I just want to say thank you for opening that. 01:26:29
Can of worms to help us understand better to be able to explain better of of actually why and what what we're doing. It's it's 01:26:35
it's kind of difficult to hear that yeah we're charging that but we haven't opened that can of worms in a while so thank you very 01:26:42
much for opening that can of worms. Trevor C Raiser Humphrey. 01:26:49
I believe that we are char. 01:26:58
Quite a bit under and Michael and his team that they're beginning to look at this as far as in the health department. 01:27:02
That they look at that and and these are. 01:27:09
Quite. 01:27:12
In comparison, so. 01:27:14
But we need to have that information. 01:27:16
That's like you say. 01:27:18
Supervisor. 01:27:21
So I appreciate you guys doing this, James. I really do it. It's good for us to know. It's good for us to see. Well, I don't know 01:27:23
where it'll come out at. I have no idea. But the more we know, the better off we are. And the more people are watching this 01:27:28
meeting and listening to it and everything else and seeing this, the better off they are. 01:27:34
And so when it comes to you and staff and everybody, I'm really, really glad we're at the point where we can actually do this. 01:27:40
And really have a good feel for where we're at. 01:27:47
And we'll just see where it goes. 01:27:51
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, James, for looking at it. And a can of worm that is, I would agree. 01:27:55
Umm to use the budget? 01:28:01
Income revenue versus total expenditures 800,000 to 18 million. 01:28:08
Is probably an unfair comparison. It's not something that we should say, oh, look at where we have a shortfall of that amount. 01:28:15
Because the Sheriff's Department is never going to make a ton of money. 01:28:24
On their fees or the constable or anything else, I think we understand that's just part of running the government. 01:28:28
Well, agreed. What I don't want to see is where we are. 01:28:36
Charging so little that it's unfair. 01:28:43
To our goods and services for the general public, et cetera, but we charge enough to accommodate. 01:28:46
What's being, you know, and I agree with Woody when he says let's do away with the fees or really reduce them a lot or anything 01:28:56
because it it, it feels like another tax. 01:29:00
However, there's people that are using the system where others are not using the system. One thing that I get a complaint about up 01:29:05
there not. 01:29:09
Too, I mean fairly often. 01:29:15
Is the fact that someone can build a brand new house on the same St. as another home that's five years old. Virtually both are 01:29:17
brand new. 01:29:22
But the five year old home pays much less property taxes and it's because of the evaluation or assessment that was done and the 01:29:27
ability for them to increase that assessment over time. So since they don't increase the assessment very much over time, the the 01:29:34
person that just built a house may be paying twice the amount of property taxes that the person down the street pays. And so that 01:29:41
is something that's. 01:29:47
Complained about a lot, yeah. 01:29:56
And that's built into the system. It's it's not something that can control, but it's a fact. And so people do see that and go, why 01:29:58
so? 01:30:03
Building the system, I say that's the state, our state legislators that have passed, right? 01:30:08
Minimum increases. 01:30:14
Yeah. So anyway, that has nothing to do with our discussion. It just it's that people will complain about increases no matter 01:30:17
what. So anyway. 01:30:21
Go ahead. 01:30:26
So we have what we call an indirect cost. 01:30:30
What this is, is for certain departments that listed departments here that are considered. 01:30:34
Providing internal services through management administration of the county. 01:30:39
Human Resources for Cutting Payroll Checks. 01:30:48
Providing facilities, keeping our buildings. 01:30:54
Up to speed riding County Attorney services. 01:30:58
To the board assessor, recorder, treasure those things of assessing properties and valuing them and those kinds of things. 01:31:02
That are providing services to the operation of the county as a whole. 01:31:12
So these departments are considered. 01:31:16
Providing services and again every year we have to require to have this analysis done to determine what the indirect costs charges 01:31:20
are, because there are certain departments certain. 01:31:27
Internal and external that we can charge for the services that are rendered to them. 01:31:35
We can charge A. 01:31:41
A grant for the payroll that we process for the HR and all that is allocated out amongst different grants and different things. So 01:31:46
those are the departments that can be charged out to other things. 01:31:53
Why this is important is that. 01:32:00
These. 01:32:05
I know that Gila County has in the past that. 01:32:12
I don't know if there was an election by the board. 01:32:16
To make this decision, but I believe that it has the board has complete and absolute control. 01:32:20
Of the finances. 01:32:25
Of Gila. 01:32:27
That this is a something that you should be informed on, that you can again make meaningful, informed, knowledgeable decisions on 01:32:29
that and so. 01:32:34
In our indirect cost plan. 01:32:41
These are the. These are. 01:32:44
Indirect costs that can be could be recovered, according to the plan. 01:32:48
Up to 13,000,000 / 13 million dollars. 01:32:53
Of costs that we could recoup, that we could recover, they're calculated in completely independent and so they are definitely. 01:32:56
Charges that we could, they're based on number of employees. 01:33:06
Number of transactions that they have square footage that different office or different purpose. 01:33:10
Is used, so we have taxing districts, taxing districts. 01:33:18
I will say this, but I don't want anybody to get afraid of it taxing districts for the assessment and collection. 01:33:24
That the assessor and the treasurer have for collecting taxes. 01:33:30
For fire. 01:33:35
So then when you're putting it down and it goes back in the container, it pushes all your stuff out, we'll give it back over to 01:34:41
you to continue your presentation. 01:34:46
Right. We were on taxing district assessment and collection fees, $570,000 I. 01:34:52
We may, but I don't believe that we charge any. 01:35:00
Or very few entities for this service. 01:35:04
Even if we continue to do to do that, we need to have that information to know that we are subsidizing. 01:35:09
A fire district or something like that, by that amount which the frequently we're asked for what's the county doing for us We are 01:35:16
doing things we have are not collecting peace and we are entitled to for providing. 01:35:22
Internal services that can be charged to the county general fund 1.6 million. 01:35:32
Special revenue funds 9.6 million, The Library District 103,000. 01:35:37
Dollars Public Works 554,000. 01:35:44
Enterprise Fund, which is the landfills 409,000 special assessments districts. These are like street lighting districts and other 01:35:48
things like that, or 41,000. 01:35:54
Fire district 27,000 and then other taxing districts, about two of $13 million that we are entitled. 01:36:00
Well, I should, I shouldn't say that that by the indirect cost plan has identified. 01:36:09
Recoverable charges for services that work that we are doing. 01:36:16
That makes sense. 01:36:22
Any questions, Mr. Klein? 01:36:25
Thing I have a question. 01:36:27
Yeah, so. So I'm gonna take one I. 01:36:30
Public works, so right there it has $554,400 that we could recover from Public Works is that what you that's what you mean but 01:36:35
give me an example or us an example, if you would please James on how would that be. I mean what what would? 01:36:44
I guess why would we? 01:36:55
Want to recover anything from the public Works? 01:36:58
We do now recover some from public works and it's to pay for the other charges. We've got a special revenue fund with special 01:37:02
revenues that are identified for this and if if public works, there was a road company. 01:37:09
That was out paving. 01:37:17
Had to operate a business. 01:37:19
And they had to have payroll, they had to have an HR function and have a finance function, and they had to have management. 01:37:21
Of the department or the company, right? All those different things, Those are overhead costs. 01:37:29
For any company to operate and do businesses that's what this is for is those overhead cost that's not a direct cost of going out 01:37:37
there laying as. 01:37:42
It's the the management and operations. 01:37:47
Overall of a company so select with public works. I want to stay on public works but in my mind it kind of covers most of them so. 01:37:51
Public works is a big asset to our constituents. 01:38:01
I mean, we we we played roads, we worked in ranges, we helped in a lot of different ways. Public Works does. 01:38:06
So if. 01:38:14
You say we took $554,000 back from Public Works. To me, my simple way of thinking is, is we're taking that amount of money away 01:38:16
from maybe that what could be put on a road or a street or or something like that or or in our employees for wages or or whatnot. 01:38:26
That's that's where I'm going in. And so I look at this and and I look at it like you know, this is all counting stuff basically. 01:38:35
To me it's just I think I I would have to look at it. In fact I'd have to be careful to really balance how that how by doing 01:38:47
something like this. 01:38:51
Impact our constituents. 01:38:55
OK. Do you have any questions, Mr. Humphrey? I do. OK, You say we we could recover it. Recover it from who? 01:39:01
From the state, From general fund, From where? Where? Where do we? 01:39:11
Get recovered from. 01:39:17
Mr. Chairman, Senator Humphrey and. 01:39:20
Just in a discussion, these are. 01:39:23
So the costs are that are identified that can be reimbursed. 01:39:28
To the county, our general fund costs. 01:39:32
For example, Board of Supervisors provide certain functions as management and oversight of the county as a whole. 01:39:36
You are the board of directors, the. 01:39:42
For this 600 employee, 100 and 2000 and $30 million organization. 01:39:47
For finance, department and those kinds of things, so. 01:39:53
Recoveries, both internal. 01:39:57
And external. 01:40:00
Reimburse the county general fund because all these functions the board. 01:40:04
OK, with external Whom? Whom? Whom would we go to to reimburse us? 01:40:10
They're ones that we provide services such as fire districts. 01:40:17
Now there's a certain component for other taxing districts, like school districts and the Community College district. 01:40:24
Those are precluded from. 01:40:31
In US going in and sending an invoice to the Academy community provisional college. So we we can't do it by law, but we are 01:40:33
providing service to the. 01:40:39
Of collecting their taxes for them. That's. 01:40:45
To the county, so we there are certain entities. 01:40:48
I'll do. I'll use Tri-City Regional Fire District. 01:40:55
We are collecting taxes for them. We could send them an invoice to reimburse the county before the services we provide. 01:41:01
OK. That that answered my question. OK. Thank you. 01:41:10
OK. And I think that actually helped clear it up for me. So when you say fire districts at 23,000. 01:41:15
And change that. 01:41:21
In order to do a pass through tax situation with them, it costs some money from our own employees, paperwork, time involved, phone 01:41:24
calls, whatever it is to get that done, 26,000. 01:41:31
OK. So what's this 9 million though that's the big figure, 9.6 special revenue funds. So that is that is the big question and and 01:41:39
one that I do wanna touch on that consists a lot of what are what are our special revenue funds, they are revenues that we see 01:41:46
that are restricted. 01:41:53
As to where they can be. 01:42:00
As to how they can be spent, we get a grant. We've had Michael O'Driscoll come up here with millions and millions and millions of 01:42:02
dollars of grants were related to Covad. 01:42:07
And from those. 01:42:13
There is a certain portion that we can collect and it's determined by this. 01:42:16
Indirect cost. 01:42:22
An external accounting firm that comes in and crunches. 01:42:25
And comes up with an amount that it's that we are that it costs for the county to provide that service. 01:42:29
What's one of your grants, Michael? 01:42:39
Just. 01:42:43
Teen pregnancy. 01:42:50
So we get. 01:42:51
Couple $100,000 for teen pregnancy education and those kinds of things to administer that grant for the paperwork that in the 01:42:53
health department and then cutting payroll checks and all that. There's a certain amount that we can charge to that grant and 01:43:00
that's identified in this study by independent accounting firm. OK. So is this just for our information or is this something that 01:43:06
you feel we need to act on? 01:43:12
For instance, the fire districts, they already are all out of money, they don't have any much money and we're not going to plan on 01:43:20
invoicing them for the internal costs, are we? 01:43:25
Or are we? 01:43:32
Not my decision, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Board, not my decision at all. 01:43:33
But, but are you proposing that these are places that we should look for recovery? 01:43:39
My only purpose in going through this and presenting this to you today is that. 01:43:45
You can be aware of what these are. 01:43:51
We it is our response I feel is our responsibility as county staff. 01:43:55
Support staff to you as a board to identify these and that you can make a decision. 01:44:00
And because Supervisor Klein makes me shudder. 01:44:06
That he wants to do away with all of these, well, I I would say in all of them, but he wants to have minimal fees. 01:44:12
That there are consequences to that and I you just have you just you have to weigh those and one of those heavy anvil weights 01:44:19
before you get thrown in the lake. 01:44:25
Of making the decision are are we going to charge a fire district or are we not? 01:44:32
Because the Spartans doing public good, public. 01:44:37
Providing. 01:44:41
And we. 01:44:43
We don't want to charge for. 01:44:46
But we identify that we are doing it. We are. We haven't charged Kohl's. 01:44:48
Fire district. 01:44:56
$5000 And so we are we are supporting them financially. 01:44:58
We are supporting these. 01:45:04
Truly financially. 01:45:06
Sending them an invoice for these charges. Thank you very much. It we're gonna have that gift plus come up here just a minute. 01:45:09
I'm picking on you, Jeff. 01:45:18
Mr. Chair, One one thing too I I. 01:45:21
You know what's good to to know, to know this and actually see some figures with it and things like that is, is when we are in 01:45:27
those meetings with our constituents or or with fire districts or whoever it is or. 01:45:33
You know. 01:45:40
Enterprise fund, you know landfill comes up and and giving us fits about how they always have to pay for things and things like 01:45:42
that. Well no you don't because here it is, this is what we're doing for you just across the board automatically or or not however 01:45:49
this comes out to be. And so to me this is really good information and and basically what James is saying on those fees as well, 01:45:57
that's what they call these days instead of administrative fees, it's coordination fees. 01:46:04
So that's what that's what I think us as a board is already. 01:46:12
Doing them in a lot of different place. 01:46:17
Places and even Jeff will support me on this Mr. Inclined that we do not have the gift clause does not come into play with other 01:46:19
governmental entities. Yep. OK. 01:46:25
Mr. Humphrey, do you have anything? 01:46:32
No, I I just like I said it's great information and and like I say not you know if if you if we reach for recovery then we're just 01:46:35
going to put those those other services in jeopardy. 01:46:42
Of having they don't have enough money to operate now some of them. 01:46:49
And you know, as far as some of our fees go. 01:46:54
I mean one thing we've never wanted to do is raise property taxes. And so you know we have to live within our budget because we've 01:46:58
got bills to pay and and some of those fees that we may charge or or need to increase or do away with it if if, if we, if we don't 01:47:06
do that then then eventually we're going to have to raise property taxes. 01:47:13
In order to pay for all of our bills. 01:47:22
And and and property taxes hit all of the property owners. 01:47:25
Where individual fees, whatever it's for, then let's go to the person that's using that particular service. And not, not not a 01:47:31
full blanket increase as it would be in property taxes, so. 01:47:38
So I've gotten enlightened, enlightened on a lot of things. 01:47:45
Today and like I say it's it's a it's a big budget and how we operated this kind of a delicate. 01:47:49
Situation on on whether we whether we do fees or increase property taxes or don't or don't pay our bills or things of that nature, 01:47:58
so. 01:48:02
Yeah, appreciate the information and bring it to us so that we can communicate on. 01:48:08
On some of these things going forward, especially now, we're just getting ready to look at a budget. 01:48:14
Mr. Rose Humphrey, thank you for mentioning that we need to live on a budget, that we need to have limited revenues. We. 01:48:22
We that is good and essential and critical for a governmental entity to be limited on our revenues. 01:48:28
We have to make decisions on what services need to be provided and and that that is a good thing. That's why we're why we're here, 01:48:38
why you as a border here. Can I run through this list real quick, just kind of some things that we want to look at this may be a 01:48:45
multi year thing and worthy discussion that we want to look at that if a grant. 01:48:51
If we're we've got a grant, it comes in and like I said, Michael's got a bunch of grants that have come in. If that grant goes 01:48:59
away or the grant revenue is reduced has been. 01:49:04
Not necessarily a policy about our practice that we do not continue the grant. 01:49:10
As mayor and I've been looking through the budget stuff, there's some that we need to clean up on that, but if a grant goes away. 01:49:15
Then the program goes away. We're not going to continue. We're not going. 01:49:24
Take general fund dollars to continue. 01:49:27
So that goes to the second vote No Grant Fund Subs. 01:49:31
There are some that we do, but that's a choice of you as you of the board of whether you will subsidized your grant that our 01:49:35
general practices that we do not. 01:49:40
Subsidized. 01:49:46
All of this is part of determining what the total program costs. 01:49:49
As we look at what a program costs, we need to pick up everything and then as you as we go out into the public and we haven't done 01:49:53
this but to determine what are the services. 01:49:59
That the constituent wants. What do they expect from Gila? 01:50:06
That we identify. 01:50:10
Something that may be extremely priority potholes right in front of your house, that's. 01:50:12
Kind of be way up there, but maybe something is very low priority. But we are spending when we determine total program costs, we 01:50:17
are determining. 01:50:21
That. 01:50:25
In excess of what the priority is. 01:50:27
And so that the attempt is to right size our delivery of services. 01:50:30
That we can go in and prioritize service delivery and the funding levels meaning that. 01:50:36
Something that's not a high priority that we can maybe do electronically to our online and that's all we do that you can go 01:50:43
through some, answer some questions. We don't have a have to have a full time staff person. 01:50:49
To provide a service that may be required of. 01:50:55
But that can be handled by an online. 01:50:58
Of course with people always on available to answer questions and give. 01:51:01
So the next to last bullet allocate resources based on priority and that's again as I said that's something that's. 01:51:09
2-3 years in the coming and that. Lastly, any exceptions to all that we've talked about today, the budget is yours. You are by by 01:51:18
law establish the budget, the three of you and the decisions. I again, as I as I said, is our responsibility to provide you 01:51:26
information so you can make the best. 01:51:33
Informed decisions that you possibly can, and that's what this attempted attempt is. It may not change anything. It might might. 01:51:42
Move things around. 01:51:50
But we haven't provided that, getting caught up with ours and stuff and I think it's time that we move in that direction. 01:51:52
Mr. Chair, I got a question. Yes, Sir. Jane, So, so this, this is a real important deal here. So you as a manager, you use our 01:52:01
manager and us as the board that has the ability. 01:52:08
To put those checks out or whatever. 01:52:15
What? 01:52:19
Let's just. 01:52:21
For keeping us informed and coming to us after you and the departments and and and the other electeds or whatever come to grips on 01:52:23
say, prioritize service delivery and funding levels, how are you going to do that with us? Are you going to just. 01:52:30
Maybe take certain things at a time, two or three things at a time and then put together like a work session or doing now, but 01:52:38
where we sit and talk about it, how how would we expect to see you bring that forward to us? 01:52:44
Mr. Chairman, So I decline first processes to enough identify what the total costs of providing a service or program and that's 01:52:51
what this whole of indirect costs and and what Michaels going through of being able to make sure that we have our cost centers. 01:52:59
Identified and that we were including and incorporating all our costs, so identifying what the costs are providing this particular 01:53:08
service. 01:53:12
We would bring that to the board in a work session or in and individually. 01:53:16
To make sure that we're on same page, answer any questions you might have, what the costs are for program, the finding out what 01:53:22
the priority is, of course that's your priorities and you're out in the public. 01:53:29
Is really the most important part, but doing surveys with the public. 01:53:35
Putting together a brief survey that can identify what's important to the constituents, to the residents of Gila County, what is 01:53:41
the most important? 01:53:45
Maybe rank them one to 10. What are you? What are your most important thing that you want to see us do is kind of government. What 01:53:50
can we do for you? 01:53:54
And then bring that back to the board. So I think that's good. I I for one would rather see it in a setting like this a. 01:53:58
Because. 01:54:05
You know, I may have my thoughts, but but I hear from my cohorts here a different different twist to it or whatever that could 01:54:07
change a little bit. I think there's a lot to be said when we work as. 01:54:13
As a board on some of these things. 01:54:19
Cohorts. 01:54:21
Mr. Jefferson, Roger Klein, I really the only decision that's going to be is in the budgeting process of what level do you fund 01:54:25
with a certain thing. So all of this is, is based on discussion and the information sharing that we can do as a in a work session, 01:54:32
as a board, as a whole, individually or however it might be. So it'll be information sharing along the process until we get to the 01:54:40
actual allocated dollars in the budget. So one more thing, Mr. Chair, I really appreciate Marin and and Mary Pryor. 01:54:47
When they sit down at the budget, our budget is big, it's thick, There's a lot of lines in this budget. 01:54:55
For for me to sit there in a matter of an hour or two hours. 01:55:03
To go through that to. 01:55:08
Every little part of that budget is pretty tough to do. 01:55:11
And so that's why when I when I think about this and how important this kind of stuff is right here. 01:55:15
It's almost. 01:55:23
For me, it would have to be broke down and presented to something that we could dwell down on and discuss, You know what I'm 01:55:25
saying? 01:55:29
Otherwise, me and Mary is going to spend a lot of time together here pretty quick. 01:55:35
Mr. Chairman, absolutely for. 01:55:40
She wouldn't find any of any of the questions you have we. 01:55:49
We'll spend whatever time that you want, if it's a marathon, three day, three nights in session, all three of us together in a 01:55:54
work session. 01:55:59
Oh yeah, we're we are glad to do it. 01:56:04
Getting in the numbers. 01:56:08
That can get really cumbersome and like you say, overwhelming. And so we want to make sure that your questions are answered, that 01:56:10
you can comprehend. 01:56:16
Because it's a big responsibility that you guys have. 01:56:23
It is huge responsibility. 01:56:28
That that whole handle. 01:56:30
As you go over the. 01:56:33
Advisor Humphrey Anything. 01:56:36
No, I'm pretty much asked all the questions that I had as we went and comments as I did so. 01:56:39
I'm, I'm, I'm good. Thank you. Great anymore for you. No, I'm good. 01:56:45
So as a matter of clarification, I think of course you, you guys do a great job. It's not my responsibility to know every in and 01:56:52
out of the budget. That's why we have staff to do that. It's my understanding that the CFO needs to make up any budget shortfalls. 01:57:02
That occur. That's a joke. Yeah, that's it. That's it. I heard that. 01:57:12
She's open. She's got her pocket. Yep. So anyway just like mine, I think the county is doing good, Our county is very good. We 01:57:20
actually had an article in the paper today in Payson about how he county is up economically 17% I think was there and stuff. So 01:57:28
just to clarify for myself though on the preceding slide where we had a $13 million. 01:57:37
Sort of cost of doing business, if I may just characterize it that way. 01:57:47
Would that figure include any? 01:57:53
Matching money toward grants. 01:57:56
Mr. Chairman no no OK so that's an outflow that's a different like we had for the list. 01:58:02
That's just an expense. 01:58:10
OK. So, OK, well, that's helpful to me then. 01:58:12
OK. Anything else? Anybody you know? OK. 01:58:15
Never give me that podium again. We're starting to talk about finances. Spend over an hour here and I'm just really getting warmed 01:58:20
up. 01:58:24
We can go. 01:58:30
We can go on, James. 01:58:32
Do you have any more? 01:58:34
Well, I mean. 01:58:36
Started. I could just keep going. Yeah, we'll be working on this for the next few months. 01:58:42
OK, great. So if that's it then. 01:58:48
OK. Thank you, James. You James? 01:58:54
Item number three will be the call to the. 01:58:56
Before I read all of this off, do we have any call to the public present here? 01:59:01
Anyone that would like to address the board here in Globe? 01:59:06
Now, anyone on the Internet connection? 01:59:11
No. Anyone in Payson, Lisa. 01:59:16
OK. So then let's move on. At anytime. On item number four, this time during this meeting, pursuant ARS, members of the board and 01:59:21
the County manager may present a brief, a summary of current events. No action will be taken. 01:59:30
Manage your men, love, Mr. Chairman. Members of the Board did want to bring you up to one item on last. 01:59:41
Thursday evening, the Miami Miami Town Council met to for a work session to consider a possible intergovernmental public Transit 01:59:49
Authority. 01:59:55
This intergovernmental public Transit Authority is being considered that we establish a Transit Authority that would govern the 02:00:01
transit. 02:00:06
System throughout Gila county including Copper Mountain and beeline bus and any other transit that that is that there might needs 02:00:11
that there might be all the other. 02:00:17
Entities, municipal entities in Gila County had approved Miami, had not had a discussion on the IPTA and formation of that and 02:00:24
they were going to have a vote last night. I'm sorry, I don't know what the result is. I believe that I'm going to join it. What 02:00:31
that means is we'll move forward. 02:00:38
And continue our exploration of the IPTA and what that does is what it would be is that each of the. 02:00:46
Municipal entities and the county would have one representative on this IPTA board. I've insisted that. 02:00:55
There needs to be a financial consideration. 02:01:03
Contribution to the IPA in order for there to be representative on the IPTA board, so. 02:01:06
I I just, I don't like the thought of having somebody that has no skin in the game of making decisions for the rest of us that 02:01:15
are. 02:01:21
The cost of a certain thing. 02:01:27
That makes sense. 02:01:29
That so that's why I say pay to play. 02:01:31
On this and so that's what we're looking at is looking at. 02:01:35
Within the next. 02:01:40
5-6 months of bringing that to the Board of Supervisors and the other entities to potentially organize the IP TA the Board of 02:01:43
Supervisors are the one. 02:01:48
Do take the boat and we'll organize the IPTA when we get to that point. 02:01:55
But I believe that all of our municipalities. Hayden, Winkleman. 02:02:02
Patient Star Valley and Coal Miami will all be on board. 02:02:07
Going forward and consider continuing to take a look at the IPTA, So I want to share that with you with general members of board. 02:02:14
OK. Thank you, James, Supervisor Humphrey. 02:02:23
I want to comment on James's comment, but I won't. 02:02:30
Yeah, anyway. 02:02:35
Not, not a whole lot. I met with the Congressman Eli Crane and staff and I was real surprised because usually when you meet with a 02:02:37
congressman staff, it's over the telephone to staff and not. 02:02:44
The congressman in person in your office. So I was really impressed that he came to visit. It was nice to go over some things with 02:02:51
him and I'll be attending the Regional Council meeting tomorrow night at CAG. 02:02:59
And we'll be carpooling with Mayor Camaros and perhaps the new mayor of Miami, Angel Medina. 02:03:07
And and I look forward to that. 02:03:16
Meeting with them for for for a drive down and a drive back, we get to communicate a lot about things that we don't get scheduled 02:03:18
meetings for. And so that's I really look forward to those meetings in our car pool. 02:03:26
To get enlightened on what's going on. 02:03:34
In within the community. So that's all I have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you Supervisor Klein. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So same 02:03:38
with us. We met with the representative by Eli Crane as well and had a really good conversation with him. 02:03:45
I think he's going to be a big help for us as a county and and. 02:03:53
And his staff, like Tim said, the good guy, really, really glad to meet him as well. 02:03:58
And coming up in DC, we're meeting with their staff in DC as well. So I think I think there's going to be some good things that 02:04:04
we'll be able to achieve there. And then on that same day that evening, we attended the legislative reception with CSA that went 02:04:11
over good, good turn out there, good visit with everyone. 02:04:19
And then on Thursday the 19th we attended the CSA executive board meeting and and in that board meeting we actually presented our 02:04:26
our vet center and to all the counties here. 02:04:33
Asking for their support on a from a from a resolution that would support that vet center that we can take forward on the 02:04:41
conveyance part of it and went over well. 02:04:46
They they had some questions. They're good questions, but they all supported this so, so that that was a really good thing. Then 02:04:52
on Friday, last Friday. 02:04:56
I participated in the interviews with the Workforce for the Workforce board director. 02:05:02
And that went good. There was 2 individuals we interviewed and then yesterday we interviewed a third one as well and I think that 02:05:09
went well as. 02:05:14
Good as well. And so I think we're coming along there. 02:05:20
Right now we're we're we're kind of getting to the point our new executive Board is going to take over for us and started 02:05:24
attending these meetings as well to get their feet on the ground. They they've been a part of this and I'm hoping that here real 02:05:30
soon they'll be stepping in and we'll be stepping out and hopefully we'll have that director in place and everything will be good 02:05:36
and we'll all be put back together. And I think I think everything's been fine on that, don't you James? I mean it seems to me 02:05:43
like the coordination between. 02:05:49
All you 3 managers and the counties have really come together now and I think we're doing good. So. So I'm excited about that. 02:05:55
Other than that, that's it. 02:06:00
Thank you. 02:06:05
I also attended on Thursday through Zoom, the meeting that you attended with the CSA. 02:06:07
Woody was there to make a presentation. So was James. That was good. 02:06:14
And one thing I'll do a shout out, a credit was that our new governor was there. 02:06:19
Kay Hobbs, and that's a rare occasion to see the governor at the CSA meeting. So I was encouraged to think that she would consider 02:06:26
the CSA a legitimate enough organization to be present and also offer some encouraging words. 02:06:35
We talked about a lot of different things that might be coming up and going through the legislature. At this point. The chaos 02:06:45
occurring at the legislature is probably pretty high level at this point. They will be producing dozens, hundreds and hundreds of 02:06:54
bills. Very few will actually probably go to a vote. One thing that they're proposing I think if I understand that HB 2430. 02:07:03
Is the pension fund pay off by the state? 02:07:12
And the counties will reimburse. So the benefit there seems to be. 02:07:15
Saving 600 and some $1,000,000 by paying it off immediately versus waiting 20 years to pay it off. Over time this will save heel 02:07:22
accounting money as well and our reimbursement amount will drop from 7.7 million to 1.349 million. 02:07:32
We'll have 10 years to pay it at 0% rate, if I understand that, OK, not a bad deal and I think that's the direction they'll go and 02:07:44
I hope they do. 02:07:49
Just as a matter of a report I am. 02:07:55
I've been assigned to the HELIC Community College Advisory Board and have met with Fernando Shipley. We're still trying to form 02:07:57
that board completely. It's on my back. I'm trying to find a person and just getting people to kind of call me back sort of thing 02:08:03
and. 02:08:09
So I just wanted to let you know I'm still working on that and hopefully we'll be able to do some good and better things as. 02:08:17
We now have also discussed. 02:08:26
Becoming more involved once again as the county. 02:08:30
So and that's all I have. If there's nothing else, I appreciate the opportunity to chair the meeting. Thank you. Thank you for 02:08:33
good. I got one more thing, just just an update. 02:08:38
Coalition of Counties. I got through the e-mail here last week. 02:08:44
The petition has been put in to list the coyote. 02:08:50
On that. So I don't know whether I can't imagine it going anywhere, but just so you guys know that's that's out there and as that 02:08:55
moves. 02:09:00
Through it. I hope it gets trashed. You know it doesn't make it very far, but if if it looks like it's going to be. 02:09:05
Coming through there, we will probably be looking at responding to it, I'm sure. So just letting you guys know where that's at. 02:09:13
OK. Thank you. 02:09:17
If there's nothing else, then we stand adjourned. Thank you. 02:09:21
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Yeah. 00:00:07
OK. 00:00:52
Good morning. 00:00:56
I was told 5 minutes ago I was going to chair this meeting. Happy to do it. 00:00:59
Are we all set to go? Payson is OK. We're ready to go and pay. 00:01:04
Payson. 00:01:10
Oh. 00:01:15
OK, Payson, we're ready to go. 00:01:21
Yes, I thank you. And we're all set on the Internet. 00:01:25
OK, I'm going to ask my lovely wife who had her hip replaced 3 weeks ago and happy to be here to lead us in the Pledge of 00:01:29
Allegiance if you would. Thank you. 00:01:34
Well, if I forgot to say the words, this meeting is called to order so. 00:02:01
Our first, we have a work session today which is always great. We can talk a lot about projects and what's going on in the future 00:02:07
project. So our first item today is Item 2A, which is information discussion on the current update to the Tunnel Creek bridge 00:02:14
construction project. And we have Tom Goodman and Rachel Hanson with us. 00:02:20
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Supervisors, thank you for inviting us to be here today. We want to give you an update on the Tunnel 00:02:30
Creek Bridge project. 00:02:34
We do have. We have two presentations today, two PowerPoint presentations. I had the first one submitted. 00:02:39
Humira asked me to go a little bit more into detail about schedule and budget, so I put together a second one. So we'll we'll go 00:02:47
through both of them this morning. 00:02:51
I'd like to start with this slide because this is really a great slide and it to me it really shows the tremendous effort with all 00:02:59
the different agencies and people that made this project. 00:03:06
Get. 00:03:13
So in this one you see we've got our banner in the background. 00:03:15
We've got the mountains in the background. We're looking to the. 00:03:19
And just behind us is where the bridge will be built. 00:03:23
And again, it's just such a great slide. It really shows how everything came together. That was on October 4th. 00:03:27
And just take a note the the background of the slide look how much vegetation is there. 00:03:37
You'll you'll notice in the future slides the difference of work, how it's progressing. 00:03:44
So this October 4th we had the ground breaking ceremony. It really turned out very well as a lot of people in this room were there 00:03:54
and we really appreciate it. 00:03:58
We we have this invitation that went out to a lot of people and we have these coins that you see in the middle. We handed out 00:04:04
quite a few of those. 00:04:08
We ran short and we do want to make sure, so we got some for each of you today. 00:04:13
We also are getting some extra We want to make sure that all the kids at the elementary school get one, and so we will take care 00:04:19
of that and then we're just having some extras made. 00:04:24
We will pass out during the project as it progresses. 00:04:30
So I just want to go back a little ways and just kind of bring you up to speed. 00:04:38
As we all know that this is the the bridge project, it's kind of down in the tunnel basin area which is. 00:04:44
Also, we have the unincorporated town of Pumpkin Center. Just to recap, Ames was low bidder on this project. 00:04:51
And they came in at $21,094,933.18 and and I'm going to go into that a little bit more here in the next slide. 00:04:59
Just to again, the bridge is 1981 feet long. It's it's a very long bridge. It's a concrete steel girder bridge. 00:05:09
It's two lanes, one lane in each direction. It's got shoulders and then we've got a sidewalk of 5-6 foot sidewalk on one side of 00:05:19
the bridge for pedestrians. 00:05:24
Yeah, and the sidewalk. It runs all the way down to the school so the kids can use the bridge as an access point to school. 00:05:30
So I want to talk a little bit more about the bids, how they came in and and how we really, I think we did very well on this 00:05:40
actually. 00:05:45
So Ames was low bidder and I mentioned their price just over 21 million. 00:05:50
So adopts estimate which I've got listed as department estimate. 00:05:54
A dot estimated the project would come in. 00:05:59
About $21.849 million. 00:06:02
So Ames was quite a bit under that. 00:06:06
And they were actually the only contractor under the department bid every the other six contractors listed. 00:06:10
They were significantly over. 00:06:17
The bit on what a dot estimated, so I think we were very fortunate that we got such a good big price for names construction. 00:06:20
And you can see the bids. 00:06:29
23.4 all the way up to 27.8 million. 00:06:31
So let's get into some of the challenges we've got with the project. I'm sure everybody knows about these. 00:06:42
This area down the tunnel. 00:06:50
It's very pristine. There's a lot of habitat that has to be protected. Some of it's endangered, some of it's threatened. 00:06:52
The first one I want to talk about is the Northern Mexican Garter snake. 00:07:01
And this little guy is a threatened species. 00:07:08
But we definitely we have a full time biologist on the project every day before contractor gets started. 00:07:15
Before he moves one piece of equipment. 00:07:22
The Biolog. 00:07:25
Walks through and inspects the project. He looks under vehicles to see if there's any snakes. 00:07:27
He looks for any activity that happened during the night and then if he does locate any of these, they have to get relocated 00:07:32
before the contractor is allowed to get started. 00:07:37
Also to add, this Creek area is a great habitat place for the snake. It's very common near water so. 00:07:44
They run into it a lot. 00:07:51
This this is a little bit smaller picture, but this shows this was actually right in pumpkin center. 00:07:56
This was taken about 3-4 years ago. 00:08:02
And it. 00:08:06
It just shows how careful you got to look out for those snakes. This this little guy got right underneath a truck tire. Luckily he 00:08:08
was spotting. They got him. 00:08:12
So we do have some other threatened and endangered species. 00:08:22
This is a Southwest Willow Flycatcher. 00:08:29
And this one is actually on the endangered list. So this again is something that. 00:08:32
This comes into more play with the clearing limits, and we were. 00:08:40
Held to clearing between October and March. 00:08:45
Because of the birds nesting during that period. 00:08:49
So again, this this one's endangered. 00:08:52
So we have the next and I thought we had the name of this guy, but he yeah, we do. He's a threatened species. 00:09:00
And that's the Western Yellow Billed Cuckoo. 00:09:08
So despite days, fish is not in danger, but its habitat down in the tunnel basin is is considered critical habitat. 00:09:19
So we have to be mindful of that as well. 00:09:29
The reason I'm showing you this this bridge at the school is. 00:09:39
It's really tied into the project, so right after the project got started. 00:09:43
The principal of the elementary school came to us and said, hey, we've got a problem when Reno Creek floods. 00:09:49
How are we going to get to school or get our kids out if if the monsoon comes in middle a day while we're in session because we 00:09:56
got old Highway 188 closed. 00:10:01
So Steve Sanders, our previous public works director, came up with the idea This bridge had been up years before and had been 00:10:06
taken down, but Steve had us put it back up for the elementary school. So I just wanted to mention that quickly. 00:10:14
There's a lot of pieces about the project that may be going on behind the scenes, but that we're working on all the time. 00:10:22
Also, the library there uses the bridge whenever Reno's flooding and. 00:10:30
Is the post office, is it past there? Yeah. So it's a it's a good access point for for other community members as well to get 00:10:38
across Reno when Reno is going. 00:10:43
So it just shows we're really working with the community. We we keep them informed of what the project, where we're at with the 00:10:50
project, we give them regular updates. 00:10:55
And it's really an important part, public outreach. 00:11:00
OK, so let me get into one of the first concerns that we have with the project. This came up shortly after we got started. 00:11:08
Again, the groundbreaking ceremony was October 1st, but the project actually had been underway for a month. Time started September 00:11:18
1st. 00:11:22
And this is a 390 working day project. 00:11:27
So by the time we had the ground breaking ceremony, themes had already been out on the project for about a month, and mostly what 00:11:31
they had been doing was going through their submittals, looking at their plans and specifications carefully. They've been doing 00:11:37
some survey work. 00:11:42
And they've been moving in and setting up their. 00:11:48
So this was one of the first issues Ames brought up. 00:11:52
To a dot and to us that they had a concern about and what this has to do with. 00:11:55
Is when we get to building the bridge, there's going to be a lot of cranes and a lot of delivery of the big concrete girders. 00:12:01
So Ames brought this up is like, hey, we have a problem. You guys didn't give us enough construction easements, temporary 00:12:09
construction easements. 00:12:13
To get these big steel girders unloaded with the cranes and they submitted several documents here that I'll go through. 00:12:18
So what you see is you see the. 00:12:26
And then you see the cranes. 00:12:30
Getting ready and the girders and then you see down at the what's in the blue is the additional construction easements that Ames 00:12:32
ask us for. 00:12:38
So this is just the other side and again you see the bridge and then you see the additional construction easements. 00:12:48
So this shows it a little bit better. You see the crane. 00:12:57
You see the bridge? 00:13:01
And then on the far left, that's the additional construction easements that aims. 00:13:03
Us to get for them. So there was a lot of debate about this. It wasn't just the slam dunk. 00:13:09
Our designer, Kimmy Horn, they didn't agree. They said no, the the project can be built the way it is. 00:13:15
These additional construction easements are not needed. 00:13:22
There was a lot of back and forth discussion between. 00:13:26
Ames and Heva County, we were involved as well. 00:13:29
What it boiled down to. 00:13:34
We got to get to a resolution. We got to keep the project moving. 00:13:37
Or otherwise it's gonna come to a dead stop and that was the last thing we wanted to happen. 00:13:40
So what we agreed was we will get you the additional easements. 00:13:46
And when we tried to do that, we found out. 00:13:53
The biological opinion is going to have to get updated, so this is where we ran into the problem. 00:13:56
The biological opinion is The update is reviewed by US Fish and Wildlife Service. 00:14:02
The original one took eight or nine months to get it updated. We are now in that process and it's taking up to 135 days. 00:14:09
Yeah, OK. So if you look at the diagram, notice that the original easement is where the crane is. 00:14:21
And they wanted more room for a truck to bring material to and from there. That way they don't have to reset up the crane every 00:14:28
time the truck comes in. 00:14:32
That's a lot of effort to stabilize the crane, get it in a good position so it can put more material up on the deck of the bridge. 00:14:37
So that extra space really gives them more time or more less less move around of equipment as well and and just more workability 00:14:43
space. 00:14:50
If, if, Mr. Chair, if I may, if, if I may, ask a question. 00:14:58
The OK, the cost involved in them wanting extra space. 00:15:04
OK, we're we're going to have to get extra permits and things. 00:15:10
So, so what's going to be the cost, the bottom line cost of this in either project delays or that kind of stuff? Are we, are we 00:15:15
looking at more of a cost, more, more delays on the project? 00:15:21
Is there something they can do while this is being waited on? 00:15:28
So, yeah, good, Great question. There are a lot of things that can be done on the West side and on the east side. 00:15:33
This so this easement is for actually when they start placing the girders on the bridge, which is that's not really scheduled 00:15:40
until. 00:15:44
Late summer of this year. 00:15:49
There are things that can be done, but there's a few things that can't be done right now, and one of the things that they can't do 00:15:52
is build the gabion baskets on each end. 00:15:57
So there are some delays currently associated with us getting these construction easements. 00:16:02
So we meet every week. We have weekly meetings every Wednesday with a dot and the contractor. 00:16:08
The delays that we are incurring right now have been going on for about. 00:16:15
Six weeks, 6-7 weeks on getting these additional easements. 00:16:21
The Fish and Wildlife Service. They have 135 days to. 00:16:26
Review this new biologic opinion. So right now we're about 6-7 weeks into delays. 00:16:31
Ames notified us just in the last couple of weeks that their standby costs are about 25,000 a month. 00:16:38
So that's kind of what we're looking at for delays right now it's about 25,000 a month that they're going to ask for in 00:16:46
compensation. 00:16:50
Mr. Chair, if they bid it according to plans then. 00:16:56
They're changing the plan. 00:17:01
We brought the A dot spec is very clear when a contractor bids a project when a contractor submits his bid on a project. 00:17:03
He is stating that he is satisfied with the plans as is and that he can build the project as is based on those plans. 00:17:12
The reality is contractors are bidding on a lot of projects. 00:17:21
To get to this kind of detail to really look at a project this closely. 00:17:27
It's they'll always bring this argument enough. It's like, yeah, we did the best we could, but until we really got into the weeds 00:17:33
on this thing, we did not realize that we didn't have enough construction easements. 00:17:39
And again, this was a big conversation between a doc Kim Lee Horn. 00:17:46
And he. 00:17:51
And we we finally just said, look, we got to resolve this. We don't necessarily agree with it, but we've got to get to resolution. 00:17:53
We've got to keep the project moving. It's just critical. 00:17:57
And so that's that's where we're at right now. 00:18:03
Anymore I'm good for now? 00:18:06
Mr. Chair Owen. So, so Tom, I'm trying to sort through this is your is your giving us this rundown? But basically what they're 00:18:11
wanting to do is they're wanting that additional easement to keep from having to tear that crane down and move it every time they 00:18:15
need to move. 00:18:20
Correct. So they bid it that way. That's my opinion. If they have to tear that crane down and move it, then that's what they have 00:18:24
to do. 00:18:28
You know, I don't know. I don't know why we would even step out there to try and do that. That's up to the contractor. That ain't. 00:18:32
That ain't up to us. 00:18:36
And that that was our position, that the county's position, A dot, did not see it that way. 00:18:41
A dot sided with the contractor. 00:18:48
They looked at it and they said, yeah, based on what we're seeing we the contractor needs this additional construction easement. 00:18:50
So then that means they don't can pay that 25,000. No, it's it's going to come out of contingency. 00:18:57
So the project, there's 5% contingency in the project which is. 00:19:05
$1,054,747. 00:19:10
And. 00:19:16
Yeah, it's on a different one. So I'll get, yeah, we'll, we'll cover the contingency, but. 00:19:24
It's right now. We Haven. 00:19:29
Gotten into this contingency, we've still got most of that $1 million sitting there. 00:19:31
But yeah, that's the way it is. We we don't agree with it, but we had to get to resolution to keep the project moving. So Mr. 00:19:37
Chair, if I may. 00:19:41
Tom, one of the things you're saying is? 00:19:47
You've got until the end of the summer when they really need that extra right away, right? Not necessarily for the bridge burgers, 00:19:50
yes, but for the Gabion baskets. They need that now. Well, explain that to me. 00:19:57
Because I mean this started out with the with the crane need to set those pillars and now we're talking about gabion basket, 00:20:05
correct so. 00:20:09
That in itself should have been upfront in the contract when they they bid on it in the project. 00:20:13
Yeah, let me go back just one or two slides here. 00:20:22
So. 00:20:26
OK, so those are the Gabion baskets. 00:20:32
And then you see him down there on the other end. So on both ends of the bridge we have Gator baskets. 00:20:37
And you can see they've got highlighted that they need construction easements to build those baskets. 00:20:43
So that's where they're right now. That's where the delay is coming from. 00:20:50
They can't right now they're not able to build those baskets. So we are incurring 25,000 a month. 00:20:55
Delay for that reason at this point. 00:21:02
Well, Mr. Chair, if. 00:21:05
They can't place them, they can build them. They just can't place them unless they build them in place. Well, they build the 00:21:09
baskets, but they don't put any material in them. So they build the baskets and then they start placing them and then they start 00:21:14
filling them with rock and bringing and bringing them up at that point. And they can't do that within the easement that they have, 00:21:19
correct? 00:21:24
Mr. Chair, for me, I I I know where you're going with this and I totally see it too. That should have been way up front when they 00:21:31
bid on this thing. 00:21:35
No, I I I don't disagree with you.