Bookmark1
Bookmark2
Bookmark3
Bookmark4
Bookmark5
Bookmark6
I said good morning everyone. 00:00:04
OK, We're going to have a work session today. It's November 26th of 2024. It's 10:00 in the morning. And I've asked Eric Mariscal 00:00:08
if you'd leave us in the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 00:00:13
Pledge allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with 00:00:20
liberty and justice for all. Thank you. 00:00:27
Good to see everyone here this morning. 00:00:38
Be myself and Supervisor Humphrey this morning only, and so we'll proceed with the work session. 00:00:42
And we have 3 items. 00:00:50
Which probably will take hours. 00:00:52
The shorter the agenda, the longer the meeting. That's the rule. But anyway, Item 2A is information and discussion regarding 00:00:56
proposed changes in revisions to the Hewitt County ordinance #02-01, which is a right of way ordinance. Good morning, homeroom. 00:01:05
Um, glad to be here again for another work session, chairman and, and, and board members. And we are trying to take advantage of 00:01:17
the dialogue that happens at the work sessions. One of the things that I wanted to say is I was mentored once, 6060 font, 5 pages, 00:01:24
30 minutes. OK. And I'm going to try to live through most of those, but I've already failed the 1st 2:00. There's a 17 slides in 00:01:31
here. 00:01:38
Is the smallest 14 I think, but it's all important information I think. So we'd like to share it with you. And what we're trying 00:01:46
to do is gather the information so we can restart the revision of this right away ordinance. We actually hired someone to to 00:01:53
rewrite this ordinance back in 2022, didn't like the outcome of that write up. It was put on hold and it's been on hold and and 00:02:00
we're going to restart it again and we'll use some of that. 00:02:06
Revisions that were put in place. 00:02:14
But there's a number of permit scenarios that have come up since 2022 that we would like to see addressed in the right of way 00:02:16
ordinance. And so we're going to be sharing those things with you today, OK. And along the way, if you have any questions, don't 00:02:22
hesitate to stop me. There is some information later on that may be affected by the question, but will handle the questions as you 00:02:28
presented. OK. 00:02:34
And and I do have a team here. 00:02:41
The team is. 00:02:44
The public works team that worked on the right of way ordinance that you see Alex and you see Sam, our new surveyor and Scott, 00:02:46
John and Steve Williams are here today and they played a role and plus others have played a role in this, in this outline of what 00:02:55
we think the ordinance should have. So let's start with the ordinance revision, the next slide please. 00:03:03
Is is meant to expand the scope of the ordinance in order to include permitting requirements for covert driveways? 00:03:12
Right way tie insurance and to provide a process to follow in the right of way work being done without a permit when the right of 00:03:19
way work is being done without a permit we'd like to see a process for that permit violations also how to address permit 00:03:27
violations enrollment process and to rewrite for clarity the permit requirements for utilities to work on right of ways. The 00:03:34
original the ordinance that were that were revising was written in 2002 and its main focus was. 00:03:41
Utility work in right of ways OK it it didn't concern itself with. 00:03:49
Property owners doing Co works and driveway tailings and so we'd like to add that to the ordinance. 00:03:54
Let's see if I can remember how. 00:04:08
Workplace. So we have some definitions and we're going to use these definitions in our discussion today and potentially in the 00:04:11
ordinance itself. So the first one is a right of way. It is the full width of the tract of land dedicated for public 00:04:17
transportation that includes all components of the road, including the travel way, the shoulders, the ditches and the utility area 00:04:24
on the road. 00:04:31
Oftentimes on our roads and I'll, I'll probably repeat this later on. 00:04:39
You see water meters in a ditch because the road is too narrow. And so we're putting two things in the same place. And that's a 00:04:43
problem for everybody. It's a problem for us, it's a problem for the utilities, problem for maintenance. And we'd like to see we 00:04:50
can find a way to deal with that going forward. And it's in here in one of the slides. The other one is county right of ways. It's 00:04:57
simply refers to roads maintained by the county. And in the slide you see a number of different county right of ways. 00:05:05
Ways that we do anything with them from a permitting standpoint and we're going to address that in some of the slides here when we 00:05:43
use the word public right of way we and I'll probably use it and then what it means it's all public right of way whether they're 00:05:50
maintained or not OK and a public utility company as a public service corporation recognized by Arizona Corporation Commission via 00:05:58
certificate of conveyance and necessity and the and or a licensed by. 00:06:05
To provide telecom services. So when we think of a utility, we're gonna think of a utility in that way in this PowerPoint 00:06:13
presentation. And then right away encroachments, we're gonna talk about encroachments. And I just wanted to try to define it. 00:06:20
It's, it's something that impacts the ability to use the right of way as a 2 lane Rd. at the posted speed limit. And your input 00:06:27
now and along the way will help with with the rest of the presentation. 00:06:34
So far so good. 00:06:43
Humphrey Yeah, yeah. So it's a work session, so something anytime I I had some questions, but you said there would be slides on it 00:06:45
later. So I'm going to wait for the slides later. And I checked them and if I don't get my answers slides later, then I have 00:06:51
marked which ones I have questions on. Very good. 00:06:56
Mr. Chair, thank you. I have no questions either. So on the next slide it talks about. 00:07:03
Who needs a right away permit and when are they required? And the short answer is anyone working on a public right of way needs a 00:07:11
right of way permit. And so the list is public utility company property owners, commercial property owners and, and those are the 00:07:18
groups that we're going to be talking about in in the rest of the slides. 00:07:24
But anyone working on a right away needs a permit. 00:07:32
So I wanted to just share some things and I, I know that we deal with public utility company franchises separately. Clerk of the 00:07:37
Board handles those franchises and we recently approved two of them. But I just wanted to touch base because I think what's 00:07:43
included in that franchise agreement is very important. 00:07:49
And and certainly public works need to take advantage of what's in those franchise agreements. But the franchise agreement grants 00:07:57
a utility a license to use public right of ways. OK. And later on we're going to talk about what does that mean? Does that mean 00:08:02
county maintain roads? 00:08:07
Or all public right of ways for the purposes of this of this presentation, when we talk about an ability of a, a, a franchise 00:08:13
public utility company using the right of ways, we're going to, we're going to say it's all public right of ways, whether they're 00:08:20
maintained or not. And later on we'll seek legal counsel through the County Attorney and or consultants and we'll figure out if is 00:08:27
it really what is meant by a public right of way in the franchise agreement. 00:08:35
And in the in the state statutes or not, are we are we just limited to county maintained roads or can we require a right away 00:08:43
permit for franchises on all public roads? OK. And again in this presentation it assumes that it's all public right of ways, OK. 00:08:53
And those things can be easily changed. We just say, no, we want to go this way. We're going to go that way. I'm just, I'm just 00:09:03
when we think about what we're talking about here, it's all when we're going to require a right away permit from franchise public 00:09:11
utility companies on all public right aways. So we, we started the franchising back in 2016 and today we have. 00:09:19
27 plus franchise agreements water, electrical and sewer and the elements of a franchise if you were to read the franchise 00:09:28
agreements and you have. 00:09:32
It's a very powerful document. It talks about insurance and talks about indemnification. It is a 25 year agreement for a fee of 00:09:37
$350.00. It's non exclusive. It holds the county harmless for damages to the to the the public utility system as a result of 00:09:44
county maintenance or construction and the county may request for those lines to be relocated if they interfere with Rd. 00:09:52
maintenance. And so it's a well written document. 00:09:59
Very much and choice the state statute it it puts the burden entirely in the utility company for any expenses. 00:10:07
OK. 00:10:14
So Romero, if I could interrupt, you might be coming to this. So tell me you're coming, but. 00:10:19
What assurances do we have if a utility does something in one of the roads that we maintain and does not restore that roadway 00:10:25
appropriately? SO11 of the slides that's addressed that. And basically we can require them to do it. We can do it ourselves and, 00:10:33
and bring and bring those costs to them and we can cancel the franchise agreement, OK. 00:10:42
So public utility companies that did not have a franchise. So we have public. So what do we do with a public utility company that 00:10:52
comes to us and says I want to apply for a right away permit, I don't have a franchise. Do we tell them you can't, you can't do 00:10:58
your work. You have to wait till you get a franchise agreement, the franchise agreements. 00:11:05
Require board approval to just post the franchise and it's a three-week public notice and then a second board meeting to approve 00:11:13
the franchise. So if somebody doesn't have a franchise that comes to public work and we say you need a franchise. 00:11:20
Then they're probably 3-4 months wait for them. OK Or we could have something like a license that says, OK, we're going to have, 00:11:27
we're going to give you a one time license to do the work that you've described and it would have. 00:11:33
Almost identical requirements as a franchise agreement, but on top of that it would have in an assurance for the work to be 00:11:41
performed a bond. 00:11:44
For the work to be performed and we could give them a one time license at basically almost the same cost as a as a franchise 00:11:48
agreement and really encourage them to go get a franchise agreement. OK, they have to do satisfy all the requirements of a 00:11:54
franchise agreement. But we so in in writing this this ordinance we would like to we're going to be addressing that we're going to 00:12:01
pick one way or the other based based on input that we get today. 00:12:08
And again from the legal counsel input that we'll get after we finish writing the ordinance. 00:12:16
Wanted to show you a couple of pictures. The first one shows a water tank and a right away. And I'm not I'm not going to pick on 00:12:23
the water company. Is it? It is at a dead end. Is it at the dead end of this road? This road connect doesn't connect to anywhere 00:12:30
at the end. They may have been doing the turnarounds at that at that end of the right of way. But again, it's a it's a utility 00:12:36
that is in a right of way and maybe it's it's been there for a long time. 00:12:43
And maybe they did talk to the county about it. Maybe they didn't. 00:12:50
But it's an example of how utility, if we don't monitor their work, we'll put the utility in the most convenient place for them. 00:12:54
The other one that shows Tonto Basin County Maintain Rd. that's that's a, that's a road. It is maintained by the county. Somebody 00:13:02
does a trench and the trench was going to be left to be found out about it on a Friday. 00:13:11
We felt that that was a safety hazard. 00:13:20
We took our action to do some traffic control for it so that it could survive the weekend without somebody falling in the trench. 00:13:24
And then we work with with that person. We was a person, not a utility doing the work. And in this ordinance we would not allow a 00:13:32
person to do work, utility work. We would only allow utilities to do utility work, a person. 00:13:40
A property owner who do work in the right away just for their culverts and their driveway. Tie insurance. 00:13:49
But but utility work on a on a public right of way would only be allowed for public utility companies. 00:13:56
I have a question on something like that. No matter who's doing the work, could we put something in there that they have to notify 00:14:07
us if they are working on a weekend so we can be a little more observant of? Because nobody works on a weekend and a lot of these 00:14:15
things are done on weekend, so could they be asked to? 00:14:23
On the permit to. 00:14:32
Let us know if they're going to be working on weekends and what weekend exactly. If they, if they applied for a permit, we would 00:14:34
put the requirements of traffic control. You can't leave a trench uncovered overnight. These are typical requirements that we put 00:14:40
on a right of way permit. The problem here, they did not apply for a permit and so it was worked without a permit that was taking 00:14:46
place. Had it been permitted, we would have had a problem. First of all, we would have questioned why is the person doing the work 00:14:51
in a utility. 00:14:57
2nd, we wouldn't allow Friday afternoon work, late Friday afternoon work to happen without them having the provisions of steel 00:15:05
plates over the trench or having filled in yet. You're right. And so when work happens on a weekend, it it unpermitted, it is 00:15:14
problematic and we need to find a way to when we when, when we do find out that that happened, that it whoever's doing. 00:15:24
Work and it's in one of the slides pay double the fee, reimburse the county for any work we do, including going out there on a 00:15:33
weekend and and and monitoring the work when somebody calls in. But there there ought to be something that discourages people to 00:15:39
try to do right away work without a permit. Now utilities responsibilities wouldn't do that. OK, the gas company here wouldn't do 00:15:45
that. 00:15:52
That the larger electrical utility companies wouldn't do that and so so but but it does happen. 00:15:59
And it is a problem for us. 00:16:04
OK. So Honero, would this typically get blue staked to do this trench that you're showing? Would it typically be blue stick by a 00:16:08
utility? Yes, we put the burden of blue staking on the right away permit holder. So if this individual. 00:16:17
Had a call for a blue stake on this trench that he dug. Would we be notified of that, that it was permitted or not permitted, or 00:16:28
so he could call for a blue stake, get it and still dig? 00:16:34
No, we would not be notified that. 00:16:41
It was blue state and we don't believe that they blue state that area. 00:16:45
Well, that's pretty dangerous, but still I'm just so my my question was if it gets blue state, does it require a permit to do the 00:16:49
blue stake? No. 00:16:54
They wouldn't notify us and we don't believe that they called it in, OK. And that's two separate like departments, entities, 00:17:00
everything to where we don't communicate with the blue state people. 00:17:06
We can bring that up with them to see if they that they can notify us for for that and we'll take that as an action item. OK, 00:17:13
thanks. 00:17:18
OK. So the next slide is Allison Drive in Pine. This is a public right of way that's not maintained by the county. 00:17:28
County actually has a quick claim through this road. OK, so in in essence you could say the county owns the road, but the board 00:17:39
has never taken action to accept this this quick claim and accept this role and therefore we don't maintain. 00:17:46
OK, it's a 35 foot public right of way. And when you think of roads in Healer County, that's that's a pretty wide Rd. However, if 00:17:54
you look at it, there's about 15 feet between vehicles and, and the, and the other item that you look at here is one neighbor 00:18:01
parks and RV. And so now it's OK to park a car in a county right away, then another neighbor parks and RV and pretty soon this 00:18:09
public Rd. that we don't maintain, but it's still a public road and it can be enjoyed by the people. 00:18:16
That that that use it as a public Rd. has become a parking lot. And that's an issue that we see often and you begin to see in the 00:18:24
picture. It's not just vehicles, it's trailers and equipment and other things, OK. 00:18:31
So we're trying to address that in the ordinance. And then in the next slide you see a picture of South Park Road and meets Ranch. 00:18:39
And what you see is that the right of way actually extends full foot behind the fence. The fence encroaches on the right away by 00:18:45
about four sheep. 00:18:52
So when a utility company see that and they get a right away permit, they'll assume that the fence is the edge of the right away 00:18:59
and they'll put the beater on the roadside of the fence instead of on the other side where it could be long and pretty soon you 00:19:04
end up with a very narrow Rd. 00:19:09
And water meters are a big problem for Elia County, OK and and they often encroach on the travel way. And the other picture is a 00:19:15
picture of Navajo Dr. The company came to us to get a permit for a right of way. We gave them a right away permit thinking that 00:19:23
they were going to trench some some reasonable amount. This is a road that's a platted Rd. It is. 00:19:31
A public Rd. that has never been built out. It's what we call the paper Rd. 00:19:40
It exists on a plat. It was dedicated. In fact, this road in essence was accepted by the county on that plan. But we have never 00:19:45
maintained it. And it's not a maintained road. And they and they don't want it to be a maintained Rd. but they but because it is a 00:19:51
public Rd. we, the utility company came to us. We gave them right away and they took every tree out and created a drainage issue 00:19:57
for the people downstream. 00:20:04
And it's, it's again, it's us, our staff being. 00:20:11
Cognizant of the these these things can happen and taking the proper precautions in the engineering drawing and the other 00:20:19
information that's provided to us. But the utility company also should have known better. You don't tear down a 12 foot path or a 00:20:24
trench that only requires 2 feet. 00:20:29
Anyway, those are problems that we've encountered along the way. 00:20:37
So the next slide is about right away permit requirements for public utility companies on all public right of ways new 00:20:41
construction and I tried to highlight the slide with blue and maybe I missed a few, but we already require most of these things, 00:20:48
OK. The things that we don't require are shown in red. 00:20:56
A license if the board agrees that we can issue a license for a one time use of the right of way. 00:21:05
Where there is no franchise and also grading and drainage permit will be required for paper rolls. 00:21:12
And and and. 00:21:18
Normally when you think about work on a right of way, if if all you're doing is you're digging a trench and you're putting the 00:21:21
road surfers back to the same elevation with no changes to the road surface, it basically says why do you need upgrading and 00:21:27
drainage permit? You haven't changed drainage and we can accept that logic except on paper roads where a road doesn't exist and so 00:21:33
a grading and drainage should be required. 00:21:39
On all paper rows. 00:21:46
To avoid the issue of, but basically everything that you see on this slide other than what's in red is already required by the by 00:21:48
the current ordinance and by roadway design standards manual. 00:21:54
So that was utility companies doing new construction. The next slide is utility companies doing planned repairs and emergency 00:22:02
repairs and so. 00:22:07
The current ordinance doesn't really refer to plant repairs, OK, but instead it requires a permit for any work on the right of way 00:22:15
by a utility. So because it's it's written like that staff over the many years, and I'm not talking about our current staff, but 00:22:23
the staff over the many years has may or may not have required a right of way ordinance for plant repairs. 00:22:31
But we should require an ordinance for, for, for planned repairs because we want to know first of all, we want to make sure that 00:22:39
they have traffic control and we want to make sure that they have insurance because it's our, it's our, some of those are the, 00:22:43
some of these roads are ours. 00:22:48
And we bear that liability And so, and we want to make sure that they are not changing the alignment of the utility. And if they 00:22:52
are changing the alignment of the utility, then we go back to new construction, requiring them to do the, the things that are 00:23:00
required of new construction. So in a planned repair, we, we wouldn't need necessarily an engineering drawing a site plan would be 00:23:07
good enough. They're not changing anything. So we, we, a site plan would be sufficient for us. 00:23:15
Less work for the utility, but nonetheless we we think that we should require, it should be clear in the ordinance that we would 00:23:23
require a right of way permit for a utility company for plant repair and then emergency repairs so. 00:23:29
The existing ordinance does mention emergency repair and of course, if it's an emergency, they should do the work and they should 00:23:38
notify us in in here. I've added 24 hours. The ordinance was unclear as to when they give us a notification, but they should 00:23:46
notify us by phone or e-mail in 24 hours. Actually, I think the ordinance is in three days. OK, but because now that the e-mail 00:23:53
exists, that maybe didn't exist. It's the way that it's used today, in 2002. Today you can send us. 00:24:00
And often people pick it up on their phone and we know that there's an emergency repair taking place. And then three days after 00:24:08
the emergency takes place, they need to give us the paperwork to say why was this an emergency and what was performed, the site 00:24:15
plan and photos of that work. And of course, all of these Rd. repairs are not final until the county approves. OK. So those are 00:24:22
the things that would remain in our ordinance or be revised in the ordinance. 00:24:29
The next slide, this is all new and reason for the red bond at the top is because everything here is new. We've had policy perhaps 00:24:37
on how do we how we replace Culvers, but we but it's not found its way to any ordinance, OK. And the policy is unwritten, OK. So 00:24:44
over the years public works have done what what the public works director thinks he's right, OK. And and it's changed over time 00:24:52
and we want to make sure that this is in writing and that we have a way to answer questions about. 00:24:59
What does the county do with culverts? Now some counties do what's on this piece of paper, other counties do not do anything. The 00:25:07
culvert is at the cost at at the entire cost of that coverage on the property owner. OK. And so there's there's different ways of 00:25:15
doing this and it's board input will guide us as to which way we go. So the proposal is that. 00:25:22
That if somebody wants to install a new program. 00:25:33
And it's the owner that's that's making the request because if the county wants, if our, if our Rd. yards want to install a 00:25:36
culvert for and it benefits the road, we we don't need the owners. 00:25:42
Permission, because the right of way is ours will notify the owner, but we can take that action by ourselves. OK, But now if 00:25:50
somebody is requesting a call and it's and it's a new, it's a new covert. 00:25:56
We would, we would allow. 00:26:05
Folks through places as many as 2 covers per parcel. 00:26:07
And they would buy the covert and we would we would install it. 00:26:12
If they want more than two culverts and they need an engineering plan to show us why they need more than two and and the plan 00:26:17
needs to show us that the coach is going to work efficiently and not cost a problem for us. The maximum size of the cover would be 00:26:24
18 inches and the minimum distance would be approximately 30 feet and the ordinance will probably make it 30 feet and that 30 feet 00:26:32
is driven from the roadway design standard manual that does tell us what the dimension between. 00:26:39
But it uses a you have to, you have to use math based on the size of the culvert you're measuring to the median of of the two 00:26:48
culvers and it and it ranges between something like 30 and 20 feet. So we would pick, we will pick a dimension that says the 00:26:55
maximum distance between. 00:27:01
I'm sorry, the minimum distance between the callers will be X today. We're thinking it's going to be 30 feet on that orbit, 00:27:09
allowing our staff to clean out those forwards when they need to. And that's, that's the whole driver for that minimum distance. 00:27:16
To replace an existing covert on the county right away. So somebody calls in and says I want you to replace this cover and that 00:27:25
culvert meets the county dimension of 18 inches. Then we would replace it at no cost. It's which is we would consider that part of 00:27:31
main the maintenance for that work. Ditches and culverts are an essential part of a road. OK. And water is like I mentioned 00:27:38
before, water is roads worse than I mean. So we want the water off the road it being carried away. 00:27:45
And so there's an existing culvert that that meets the 18 inch requirement. We would replace ourselves. And if it's not, if it's a 00:27:52
smaller culvert, then we would go back to the property owner, say you have to buy the culvert, we'll install it as if it were new, 00:27:58
OK. 00:28:03
If on other public roads. 00:28:10
That the county does not maintain the property owner would be responsible for all the work. They would not be. We would, they 00:28:14
might, they may apply for a right away permit, but they would, we would tell them that what they need is a greedy and Greenwich 00:28:22
permit to to, to do that work, assuring us that he's not causing harm to other folks downstream and or upstream. 00:28:29
With the installation of that so for non county maintained growth it's entirely in the owners expense and would require a grading 00:28:38
and drainage permit. 00:28:42
So the next slide is new residential driveway tie insurance and. 00:28:51
If this is not necessarily today addressed in the right of way ordinance, but it is addressed in the local design standards 00:28:58
manual, OK and the low wage design standard manual, it's a very technical manual that guides folks on what to do for new road 00:29:04
construction. 00:29:11
And it includes driveway targets. And so we would incorporate that into the right of way ordinance. A right away permit would be 00:29:18
required. We would make sure that they're complying with the standards manual. 00:29:26
All driveway costs are funded by the property owner. So they're putting in a driveway and part of that driveway is in our right of 00:29:37
way, but but it's their driveway and all cost belongs to that, to that property owner. And either the work, this is again 00:29:43
residential, either the work is performed by a registered insured contractor or the property owner provides proof of insurance. 00:29:50
Property owner wants to do it, show us proof of insurance because we're liable for that road, OK. 00:29:57
And by the way, I'm talking about county right aways in this first section, OK, in the bottom section, I'll be talking about 00:30:05
everything else. 00:30:09
For a road that we maintained, we would have these requirements. A site plan and traffic control would be required. It's it's our 00:30:14
Rd. We have liability for it. Grading and drainage permit may be required. We've seen evidence of or examples of where people put 00:30:20
in a covert or a driveway and it causes some problems upstream and we want to make sure that there are no drainage issues. It may 00:30:27
include a covert installation if it does. 00:30:34
As part of this residential driveway tie in, the county would install that that particular cover. 00:30:41
OK. So then if it's not a county right away, if it's not a road to be maintained and it's one of those public right of ways that 00:30:48
we do not maintain, it would require a breathing and drainage permit, OK. It wouldn't require a right away permit. It does not 00:30:56
require compliance. The way we're thinking is that this does not require compliance with roadway design standards manual. 00:31:04
You know, we could, we could pick the option and say why not? Why aren't we requiring that of this residential driveway? 00:31:13
And some counties do, Maricopa County, for instance, does. Most counties don't OK, if you're not, if, if we don't maintain that 00:31:23
road, we want to be as far away from any liability with that road as possible. However, there is there's two sides to that. One of 00:31:29
them is one of these days they may apply for that rule to be maintained by the county. And so if that's the case, why didn't we 00:31:35
require the things that we would normally require for our roads? 00:31:41
And based on board of supervisor input and our our legal team, the County Attorney and other consultant, we will we may change 00:31:49
that over time, but. 00:31:56
Today, the way this is written, we would just require grading a drainage permit and the grading and drainage permit would probably 00:32:03
require traffic control as part of that permitting process. All driveway driveway tie in costs are funded by the property owner of 00:32:10
course and including the design, material and installation. 00:32:16
Any questions? 00:32:24
I'm good, thank you. 00:32:29
Something just came to my mind on the road we were discussing at East Verde Estates, Kings King King Rd. Kings Rd. So it's very 00:32:31
problematic Rd. drainage issues, all of that. So if we were to the county were to take the attitude of OK well these are citizens 00:32:40
of the county that have trouble. This is a non maintained Rd. by the county. What can we do to help? 00:32:49
It would, would that be the attitude that we would have? You know, let me show you what we can do. 00:32:59
This is how we can accomplish a better end result. 00:33:06
Versus just coming to a black and white decision of we're not going to accept that road, we're not going to do this or that. Do we 00:33:11
have a means where we can assist? 00:33:17
There's 8 or 10 property owners there that are struggling with some real serious roadway problems. 00:33:24
That's a that's a complicated issue. We are planning a work session, hopefully end of January. 00:33:34
To talk about roads, abandoning roads, accepting roads I. 00:33:42
And today we have, because there have been some. 00:33:47
Folks interested in asking the county to maintain that role. We, we have developed a little, a little template that says here's 00:33:54
the things that you should be satisfying and here's how this role ranks against those items. There's two or three things that that 00:34:01
really in my mind stands out. One of them is the traffic count. 00:34:08
How does that road compare with all the other 750 miles of non maintained county roads? 00:34:16
And the other one is drainage. Drainage is a major issue and it's a forever issue, doesn't go away. It's not like where we can we 00:34:23
can add gravel to the road. Drainage waters got to go somewhere and you need to know where that water is going to go when we 00:34:28
accept the road. 00:34:32
And those two things always need to be at the top. I think of our minds as we move forward the, the, the January work session, 00:34:38
we'll start with, we've been receiving because you've heard this before, $9 million a year to maintain growth in 2007, something 00:34:44
like that. Forget that. And and that money has not increased over time and there's little expectation for us to expect that to 00:34:50
increase. And so if there is an upper limit to what we can maintain, then we we need to consider that in, in that formula of 00:34:56
making. 00:35:02
Official which votes to accept. Now, there may be roads that we shouldn't be maintaining and interesting, it's interesting that 00:35:08
the Forest Service has mentioned a couple of them to us and we're going to work with them and, and and with the board as to 00:35:14
whether or not we should continue to maintain those roads. But that's that's something that we should be looking at and that's all 00:35:20
part of a much longer discussion. 00:35:26
In a future work session to to talk about roads because I think we need to have that discussion again, that's been left very much 00:35:33
to our director of public works to make all those decisions and it changes with with with the director. 00:35:40
And we should have guidance on that, that we follow as we move forward. If the the only strict part about that is we can, we don't 00:35:47
maintain a road unless the board approves for us to maintain that road that that policy has always been followed. 00:35:54
I didn't answer your question, I don't think. But well, no, it's, it's not a very clear question. Obviously the So let's say 00:36:01
there's 8 owners on there. They all signed a petition. We want this fixed. And so as a particular owner, so let's say I own one 00:36:08
piece of that and say, well, I want to put some money toward this. It's a private kind of a private road. The county doesn't 00:36:15
accept it, but it's a paper road and so. 00:36:21
But no one else wants to put money toward it. So nothing ever happens. Nothing ever gets done because no one can all get together 00:36:28
at one time to do it so. 00:36:33
My concern from the position I have would be, well, how can we best serve the public in this way? And so that was my question. Is 00:36:39
there any means to help them facilitate a cooperation with each other to get that? That's a, that's a nasty Rd. I went up on it a 00:36:47
few days ago and it's bad and it's like a driveway. So King, Kings Rd. that's the name of the world, right? 00:36:56
We actually met with those folks. I think we met with them three times and one, one time with most of the folks that lived on the 00:37:06
road and the other times with just the individual person. 00:37:10
And, and we did coach him on what we expected for them to do with drainage, OK. And I was joined by, by by the road yard folks, by 00:37:15
the surveyors, by flood control in, in those visits. And we, we kind of have laid out for them what we think. 00:37:25
Should be done the ability of one owner to convince seven other people. That remains to be seen. I I'd be willing to host a 00:37:35
meeting with them with, with the group and, and try to guide the discussion a little bit. But it's, it's, it's a difficult thing. 00:37:42
They all need to agree and they all need to allow water to flow where it needs to flow. And, and sometimes we can't find that 00:37:48
ready solution. 00:37:55
Sometimes we can't fix that. 00:38:03
I've been to other places. I think it's Round Valley, where we have laid out what the requirements were to bring those roads in to 00:38:05
maintenance. Those are much different kind of roads in much better shape. They're actually maintained by the group right now. 00:38:12
And it has ample Eastman drainage. We we told them what we wanted for drainage and they're willing to do it. And they haven't come 00:38:21
back to the table because the whole community isn't in agreement to do that yet. Some people don't want the road to be maintained 00:38:26
by the county. 00:38:31
OK, and so they need to resolve that under all. 00:38:38
OK. Thank you. 00:38:43
Thank you. 00:38:46
Again, on this commercial property right away culverts that blue is meant to show things that we that are in the ordinance that we 00:38:48
can do today. And if you're a commercial property and you want a driveway, a culvert or a driveway tie in either or both on a 00:38:56
county right away on a road that we maintain, then you would need a right away permit. You'd have to comply with our manual. 00:39:04
You would need a grading. A grading and drainage permit may be required. 00:39:14
Work to be performed by a registered contractor and the corporate and driveway and the driveway tie in installation is funded by 00:39:17
that property owner. This is very much what we did with The Perrys, by the way, when The Perrys came to us and they said we want 00:39:25
this driveway, we asked them to do these things. We actually asked them to do a traffic study as well. 00:39:32
And they did that to show us that it was in the right place and would be a safe driveway. But so these would be. 00:39:41
In my mind they're already required. They should be the standard requirements for a commercial driveway tie in and a covert all 00:39:51
other right of ways that are not maintained by the county for commercial properties. It would revert back to a breathing and 00:39:56
drainage permit. Would not have to meet the manual. 00:40:02
And all costs are still with the property owners. 00:40:10
We're almost there. I think we're slide 15 out of 17. 00:40:18
And these last couple of slides are? 00:40:23
Are important. 00:40:29
So the current ordinance addresses breaches to a permit. The ordinance that we have today says if you got a permit, we can and you 00:40:31
don't comply, we can revoke that permit. 00:40:37
And if we revoke the permit and we have to do something on the road, we're going to bring those costs back to you. 00:40:43
You're gonna have to pay for reasonable cost for us to restore the road. 00:40:49
It does not address. 00:40:55
Working without a permit. It does not talk about working without a permit. 00:40:58
And it does not have a sense of urgency when dealing with a violation of a right of way permit. So the way I think of a right of 00:41:04
way permit, if, especially if it's one of our right of ways and we're liable for that road and somebody ***** a ditch right next 00:41:10
to the road. This is not like a complaint from somebody who says my neighbor hasn't cut his weeds. This is about that. At any 00:41:17
moment somebody can fall in that trench and the county gets through. 00:41:23
OK. And so that in my opinion there's there should be a sense of urgency about that. So what do we do? 00:41:31
Whether you get that, especially if you did that without a permit and we need to do something. So with that in mind. 00:41:37
There's two there's two things that can happen on a failure to obtain a right away permit. 00:41:47
The work is ongoing. You're doing the work just like we saw in that picture. We found out on a Friday that somebody's doing the 00:41:55
work. What do we do? Well, we use common sense. Steve Williams and I worked on that and Steve went out there and put some blinking 00:42:00
lights and. 00:42:05
And tape and other things. So just make sure that we at least offered the public some some notice that that trench was there OK. 00:42:11
And so in this particular case it we would issue a seasoned assist letter. The work is ongoing. We would issue a cease and desist 00:42:20
letter and we would require permit compliance in three days for them to come into the office and and and and and. 00:42:28
Comply with the permit that the right of way permit fee would double for for all requirements of of that right away permit. 00:42:37
If permit later on, if it's if work, whatever work has been done that we can't see, we would require pothole and we want to know 00:42:45
that it's something is very 3 foot deep and where it's located. OK, So potholing at the expense of the violator and road repairs 00:42:53
would have to be undertaken and they would not be completed or approved by the county. If it's a traffic hazard like that road 00:43:00
was, the county will take immediate, immediate action and charge back. There's no need. 00:43:08
About it, take immediate action, make the road safe and they're going to pay for it, for our time, for the traffic control 00:43:15
devices, whatever, whatever we use. If the permit compliance is not complete in three days, if they have not come in to do 00:43:22
something, then we'll take another look at the situation and take whatever necessary action we think is appropriate to make the 00:43:28
road safe for the long term. 00:43:35
Not just for the weekend. Then we would be looking at. We want to make this road safe for the long term. This person is not 00:43:42
responding. 00:43:45
And it's our, it's a public, it's a, it's a public road. And we want to make it safe. And we would charge them back for any work 00:43:49
that we do. 00:43:53
If the permit compliance is not obtained in seven days, then and it's a property owner, not a, not a utility, it's a property 00:43:58
owner. We would schedule a hearing with a hearing officer and we would give them five days notice and bring them in front of the 00:44:05
hearing officer, OK. If it's a utility company, we would schedule a board meeting to take action to terminate the franchise for 00:44:13
the license that may have been issued. And of course they would still be responsible for the cost that we incur. 00:44:20
For the restoration of the road. 00:44:28
We were filed with Superior Court to collect reimbursement for work performed by the county. And again we would be seeking County 00:44:32
Attorney, County Attorney does have an opinion on that and we need to blend that in with what we do. What do we do afterwards to 00:44:39
collect that money because the situation is different than we go cut somebody's weeds down. We put a lien on the property, but we 00:44:46
can't put a lien on a public right of way. It basically belongs to us. So we'd be putting a lien on ourselves. So if somebody. 00:44:54
In our public right of way, we need to figure out how do we go back and make sure that we get reimbursement because the lack of 00:45:01
getting reimbursement results in people working on right of ways on a weekend. 00:45:06
And we need to be meaningful in how we go about making sure that people know if they're going to violate the right of way 00:45:14
ordinance, they're they're surprised to pay. 00:45:19
And for the hearing officer, for the property owners, we would be changing right away ordinance to talk about the typical fee per 00:45:26
day and the typical fee per day that's used by the hearing officer is $700.00 a day. And I think you also find that in the state 00:45:33
statutes. So those are things that we were thinking about incorporating into the ordinance. 00:45:41
For failing to get a permit, OK. 00:45:50
Next slide is I wanted to talk a little bit about Rd. design. 00:45:57
So they have a mini Ave. meaningful discussion on on encroachments. We need to look at that that the Gila County Roadway Design 00:46:01
Standard manual does not have a design for a gravel Rd. 00:46:07
What you see here in the with the green font that is for a pav row and I went through that manual and I found the the road with 00:46:15
the least right of way with and it's a it's a low volume Rd. 00:46:22
That has traffic of 25 mph and the minimum right away width is 50 feet OK. 00:46:31
And what what I'm showing on this slide is a gravel Rd. that measures 40 foot wide. 00:46:40
And you see two vehicles, they're approximately sized in scale to this role the pickup trucks have nowadays. Some of them get 00:46:46
close to being 7 foot wide. So the ditch is 2 to one slope, 1 foot deep. It's a very shallow, small ditch. Basically there is an 00:46:55
area outside of the ditch for utilities placement. 00:47:03
And when you Add all these components up, it's 40 feet. There is no shoulder on this road, by the way. 00:47:12
It's just a travel way 11 feet normally there's some footage shoulder on most roles, so this would be a minimum #40 feet. If you 00:47:19
look at other counties like Navajo County or gravel, the smallest gravel right away with is 54 and 54 is pretty common. So it 00:47:27
allows for utilities to be placed outside of the ditch. Otherwise you're putting the water meter in the ditch if it's something 00:47:34
like 24 foot wide. So the next slide shows us a rope that's. 00:47:41
Would like and in this particular rule you can see that. 00:47:49
If you park, if you park just one vehicle, and if you even if you park it in the ditch, you're really obstructing flow. 00:47:55
Traffic flow for something as 24 foot wide and I just wanted to show that that visualization so that we can talk about obstruction 00:48:03
on public right of ways. 00:48:10
And the reason we want to talk about this is we do get numerous complaints about people parking on the roads. And what we do is we 00:48:18
struggle with that every time and try to each time we try to invent what do we do in this particular case? What have we done in 00:48:25
the past? And and we don't necessarily have a policy or a ordinance that directs us in what what we should be doing. And I am 00:48:32
looking for that prescriptive process because not having that is. 00:48:40
County attorney's time and we take up a lot of staff time to try to figure out what we do. And often times we end up doing, I'm 00:48:48
going to say nothing. We're not acting quick enough. And so I'm looking for how do we if we're going to say no and let's have the 00:48:55
no ready to go so that we can tell them no, we're not doing anything. And, and, and we didn't and we don't waste the energies and 00:49:03
the time. If the expectation is that we do something, then what is that something? OK. 00:49:10
And So what is that something is on this particular slide. If it's a county right away and the road belongs to the public and the 00:49:18
county maintains it and there's an obstruction, obstruction defined by meaning you can't travel on this hill something like the 00:49:25
gate or similar to a date and obstruction then we remove upon discovery other words, it's it's a road. We maintain the public 00:49:33
expect to travel on that road. You put something and you're not allowing traffic. 00:49:40
Through Rd. yard. Go remove that. 00:49:48
It should be that simple. OK, if it's an encroachment where you're impeding the flow of travel and you can't meet the speed and 00:49:51
you no longer can travel two way traffic at the allowable speed limit. Oftentimes when I think of that, I think of a minimum turns 00:50:00
of 20 feet. And by the way, this was brought up at one of your town hall meetings, Supervisor Christensen where the. 00:50:08
Fire departments get up and say we need 20 foot of width on a road to to to be able to respond. 00:50:17
So I'm using that as being a minimum clearance that's required. Anything less than that is an encroachment. OK, So we give them 15 00:50:23
days. If it's an encroachment and it still allows traffic at least one way, 15 day notice is given to the property owner or, or or 00:50:30
is placed on the encroachment. If we don't know who the property owner is and it's a trailer without a license plate, we put it on 00:50:38
the trailer. OK. And this, by the way, follows the state statue. 00:50:45
In in the section on transportation that has to do with state highways, but also allows. 00:50:53
The subdivisions of the state, like the county to utilize this, the encroachment would be removed and a person responsible. After 00:50:58
the 15 days, the enforcement would be removed and the person responsible for the enforcement would pay for that cost. 00:51:04
Now, if it's some equipment that doesn't, we can't identify the owner, we may be picking it up and never get paid for it. OK. But 00:51:11
if it's a, it's a licensed vehicle or a vehicle that, that's sitting there, we, we may or may not get paid for, but so we, we say, 00:51:19
well, are we worried about people paying for us eventually? Or are we worried about making this rope passable? And, and, and so we 00:51:26
need to, we need to answer that question as we move forward and we will file with Superior Court to collect. 00:51:33
And again, County Attorney would like for us to find a different way than to that to go through Superior Court. And I put that 00:51:41
down because it was in the state statue allowing subdivisions of the state to behave like this. But this is still subject to legal 00:51:47
review. And again, we're going to take the input from the board, finish writing that ordinance and and get it into the County 00:51:53
Attorney for their review. 00:51:59
So that's where county right of ways, other public roaches and obstruction or encroachment. 00:52:06
We can do the same thing that we have up here, or we can simply tell them, hey, that's an issue that you need to take up. 00:52:12
The property, whoever has that property, we don't maintain that role. 00:52:18
And again, we've used that in the past for the county. I think the sheriff may have used that. If it's not a county maintained Rd. 00:52:23
we can't do anything. 00:52:27
And, and if that's, and if that's our position, I would be, I'm OK with the positions that we take, but I just want them to be in 00:52:33
writing. And again, it's because I don't, I don't want to treat one person one way because I'm the director today, another 00:52:39
director comes in tomorrow. We treat another person differently. There should be guidance on what do we do for roads that are not 00:52:44
maintained by the county. 00:52:49
And somebody parks on it. So then the last item is I want to talk about no parking. 00:52:55
We could. The board could decide it's OK for us to include it in the ordinance or to have a separate resolution that says no 00:53:05
overnight parking on any public roads that have widths of 20 feet or less. 00:53:10
You park there, you're obstructing that first responder. 00:53:16
So park, park on your property, OK, That's an option. The other one is, and I'm referring to the road on on Pine that I showed you 00:53:20
the picture. I think it's Allison Rd. the community members and you saw the cars parked on both sides. It's 35 foot wide. It's a 00:53:28
public Rd. There's no reason why traffic should be obstructed. Community members may come to the board and request no parking on a 00:53:35
specific Rd. segment, OK. 00:53:43
And it would require a number of property owners to petition. The board could be something like 50% for property owners that are 00:53:51
abutting on the road. It would require a public meeting and a report from the county engineer. And then based on that, the board 00:53:57
could take action. Let's say we're going to post at no parking and a resolution that gives the sheriff the authority to haul those 00:54:04
vehicles away based on that designation. 00:54:10
And and those are some ideas that we think are worth for us to consider. 00:54:18
And that's it for my flight. I'm ready to get to have whatever discussion we need to have at this time. 00:54:22
OK. First of all, I would like to thank you very much and all the staff and departments that have put time and energy into your 00:54:33
presentation today because the amount of time and hours and and thought and communication. 00:54:41
Between the departments, from engineering to the road department, to all the people that work on this, you know, putting this 00:54:49
together to even bring to us, I appreciate the effort because we do have issues. And up until now, it's like everybody just shrugs 00:54:57
their shoulder, looks at engineering, shrugs your shoulder, looks at the road department, shrugs your shoulder, call the so say, 00:55:04
hey, is there anything we can do? And so, you know, putting time, energy and effort. 00:55:12
And to this, I think is it a can of worms? Yes, it is. But is it one that's never been looked at that you are taking bringing to 00:55:19
us with the opportunity to look at it? I appreciate it very much. 00:55:26
And so, you know, talking about code enforcement, I, I, I think that's great, you know, because we started it for, for blight and 00:55:34
I appreciate staff working very hard. You know, when I first came on board for blight, our hearing officer and our code 00:55:41
enforcement officer were both paid county employees. So if we put a penalty on somebody, we couldn't do anything about it. And so 00:55:48
then it, you know, then. 00:55:55
Planning and zoning is using it for, you know, health like raw sewage and building without a permit. And so it's great to see that 00:56:03
perhaps maybe you, the road department and these right aways and some things can also get some use out of the code enforcement and 00:56:11
the fact that we can write people citations and turn them over to a collection agency. 00:56:20
To, to be able to write some of these wrongs instead of just shrug your shoulders. Because if, if, if there's not any penalties 00:56:29
and I and, and I don't mean everybody needs to be penalized in the. 00:56:34
Different cases, but, but if you, if you tell somebody they got to move their car or else and there's nowhere else, then they're 00:56:40
going to park four more cars there and and give you the peace sign because there's nothing we can do so. 00:56:47
I think it's great that you're opening this and giving us the opportunity to move forward on a lot of these. And, and you know, 00:56:56
like you say, you put a lot of time, energy and effort and, and I'm behind you 100% and how you deal with it. Like no overnight 00:57:02
parking, okay. You know, I mean, that's, that could be something or just an hour, you know, on a 20 foot Rd. you can only park 00:57:09
there for six hours. 00:57:15
Because you know what if they work at night, so they park there. 00:57:23
All day they're still obstructing our emergency vehicles, but if they're there for a birthday party, you know, we're not 00:57:27
penalizing. They can, they can be there for six hours, so. 00:57:32
And and working on, you know, trying to work with some of these people on on so-called paper roads. 00:57:38
We've got a lot of issues with that because there was an ordinance in the beginning and like Quail Ridge in, in my area, we've got 00:57:46
a utility going up that so-called Rd. that's exposed because nothing, no maintenance is being done on that. 00:57:54
Because everybody owns a piece of the road and they're all fighting and it ends up in lawsuits. And, and I, I even quit wondering 00:58:04
what lawsuits going on now. I used to try to fix it. And it's like some of these lawsuits have got to get over with before we can 00:58:10
come to any agreement. And you know, the county had. 00:58:16
Worked with the utility company to work with them and they were going to furnish the material and we're going to do the labor to 00:58:24
kind of surface this and get some utilities covered. Well, you know, then with the people in lawsuits there, we, we never could 00:58:31
obtain all the easements, which is a, you know, a difficult deal. So on deals like that, if the property owners have a have agreed 00:58:38
at some point in time to have a road on their property. 00:58:45
Through legal is there any, is there any teeth in in that We could, you know, like a supervisor Christian has the issue where 00:58:54
we're not everybody could agree well if they agreed to have a road, is there not something legal that hey, you know, if if you own 00:59:01
half of that road, well then 10 feet of it you have already said it can be a road. So you can't just say no, I don't want anything 00:59:08
done there because you you know so as we look into this further, is there legally something. 00:59:16
That there's a road there and and somebody gave permission for easement for that road to be there. So is there some legal way that 00:59:23
we could make them liable for their original agreement to allow their neighbors to get to their property and now they're saying 00:59:30
no, but anyway. 00:59:37
I, I thank you very much. I, I agree with a lot of it. And like I said, I didn't disagree with any of it. And I appreciate you 00:59:45
looking at it and, and putting that time and energy and effort because you, you were the, you know, the departments that have put 00:59:50
time and energy in this. 00:59:56
Are the ones that deal with this every day on on where people are working and how they're working and not obtaining permits and 01:00:02
so. 01:00:07
I'm I'm very much in favor of expanding our code enforcement, even if we have to expand our expense of a second code enforcement 01:00:13
officer to handle some of the things that we need to deal with and heal account so. 01:00:22
Thank you very much. Thank you, Supervisor Christian, I think I'm finished. Thank you. 01:00:33
Romero, I'll extend my thanks to you as well and the staff involved with this. 01:00:42
What my impression is that there's just a few changes to the existing ordinance, and I would agree with all of the suggested 01:00:49
changes and additions. I do believe that we should have in place on your page #6 about those that do not have a franchise to give 01:00:58
them. It's kind of a one off thing. They need to do some digging. They need to put something in. 01:01:07
They don't need to wait four months to do that to get through process. 01:01:17
So I mean, if they're going to want to be there for years to come, then they need to have a franchise. But. 01:01:23
They just need to do one thing. It's OK. Umm. 01:01:28
My first impression on this photo you have of Ellison Drive and quite a number of the roads you're Speaking of do exist in the 01:01:33
Pine and Strawberry Control Rd. area. These are older communities developed back in the 50s or so, and there's been sort of this. 01:01:44
Understood, Norm that we're going to park here, we're going to store something here. We're going to and the photo you show here, 01:01:57
there's it's more than parking, it's storage. There's people putting their trailers there and if they're turning it into their 01:02:02
property. 01:02:07
So they're not going to be happy to be told to move that. However, it is a public safety concern. If a fire truck can't get down 01:02:15
that road or turn back around or do anything, it is not their property. 01:02:22
So we need to do and I realize this is a transition, but it's time I think for Healer County and these areas to. 01:02:30
To grow up, in a sense, we are maturing as a county and this is not 60 years ago when you could do just whatever you wanted and no 01:02:42
one really cared or noticed. Now we have much more congestion and public safety and easement and utilities. They need to be able 01:02:51
to move and get into these places. So I agree with the changes you're making. 01:02:59
I realize there's probably going to be a challenge to enforce. 01:03:07
However, we do need to have the. 01:03:13
We need to have it in place. We need to make these appropriate changes. I agree with that and I do thank you for that. 01:03:16
Thank you. 01:03:23
So is that the end of your presentation? 01:03:25
We're done. OK, thank you for your input. Any more comments on that one? 01:03:29
OK. All right. Thank you, Romero. And as time goes on, if you do have comments, make sure you. 01:03:35
Sure. OK. Thank you. All right, so we'll move on then to Item 2B. And this is information discussion regarding proposed changes to 01:03:41
the Healer County Minor Land Division ordinance. Good morning, Randy. Morning, supervisors. By the way, I have 5 flights, so I met 01:03:49
Homer's requirements. Clearly, you get the Gold Star. 01:03:57
So by the way, it's the same staff that they talked about Scott and Sam and and Alex and Homer and me and stuff and working on 01:04:06
this too. So I want to give staff some kudos too. 01:04:13
So the ordinance that we're talking about was adopted in 1989. It was last changed, had a minor change in 2006. 01:04:21
So there's a state statue that goes along with minor land divisions that is 11831. Minor land divisions are land that are split 01:04:32
into 5 parcels or fewer and are less than 10 acres. 01:04:39
We have a lot of people that split and then re split and then re split and then re split. 01:04:49
You're only allowed to do it 5 splits, then you sell it, and then if someone else splits it and there's enough land there, they 01:04:56
can do that. But you're not supposed to be doing that in any way to try to get around the subdivision requirements, which is over 01:05:03
5 lots. And again, we have nothing to do with that. That is all through the Department of Real Estate. 01:05:11
We have no control or no say over that, so I just wanted to bring that up. 01:05:19
We also, it says the state statute the county may not deny approval of any land division that meets the requirements of this 01:05:25
section. So this is not up to us to just say we don't like it, we can't do with it if they meet the requirements we are not 01:05:30
allowed to deny. 01:05:36
And those requirements are partial meets minimum aptical zoning requirements. Now the question is, does that apply to Young? And 01:05:43
Young would not be denied because they don't meet zoning ordinance because there are no zoning ordinances there. Well, there are 01:05:51
some, but overall Young does not have zoning. So this would not be denied for not meeting the zoning. 01:05:59
The applicants provide a preliminary title report or acceptable document that demonstrates legal access to parcels. 01:06:09
Appkin provides a statement from a licensed surveyor or engineer or other evidence acceptable to the county that each partial has 01:06:18
a physical access that is transversible by a 2 wheel drive passenger vehicle. If you will get into this a little bit, but 01:06:24
basically. 01:06:31
The Fiscal Asset access is statement on the survey that says you can get there by a car. 01:06:38
The legal, I mean, sorry, yeah, that's not legal address or access is we're wanting to make a change that it requires a 24 foot 01:06:46
Rd. and Homer just went through that and explained why we would want that. 01:06:52
The applicant reserves reserves the necessary and appropriate utility easements to serve each parcel created by a minor land 01:07:01
division. 01:07:05
It's an absolute acknowledges that it is unlawful to attempt to avoid the subdivision laws by acting in concert to divide parcels 01:07:11
of land into six or more parcels. 01:07:16
So currently we're doing most of the stuff, some of the stuff that's in our ordinance we have not enforced. We have a couple of 01:07:26
things we want to add to help enforce this as we move forward. 01:07:33
So a record of survey for a minor land division drawn by a lands surveyor, meaning all Arizona Boundary Service survey minimum 01:07:40
requirements and showing existing proposed boundaries access utility easements. What currently happens now is when a surveyor 01:07:49
draws up a minor land division, they submit that to Scott, Warren or Sam and they do the math and they make sure those lines. 01:07:58
Closed and meet the requirements. 01:08:08
Once Scott does that, he also looks over the overall form of it. He shifts it to me and I review and make sure it's cleaning, 01:08:11
zoning, We have access, we have all the stuff required. Nothing's too close to the property lines, nothing's going over the 01:08:16
property lines and so on. 01:08:22
Name and address is Vol Properties, our parties of interest to the Land Division. 01:08:29
Deception of access Our description of access to the parcel proposed to be divided and manner access is granted within the 01:08:37
statement from the register for Surveyor stating whether each parcel has fiscal address and that is transferable by A2 wheeled 01:08:43
vehicle. 01:08:49
Current zoning of the parcels and areas and dimension of all the parcels, that's what we're doing now. 01:08:58
Now the state statute addresses. 01:09:05
Some of the. 01:09:11
Lot line adjustments, but we don't in our ordinance. Our ordinance was dealing with minor land divisions and not lot line 01:09:14
adjustments. So we're going to add lot line adjustments in there because that's a pretty common thing that happens a lot here is 01:09:22
people and subtract and it usually takes two or more parcels to do a minor to do a lot line adjustment. 01:09:29
The same thing while I adjustment has to be drawn by a surveyor meeting all the Arizona boundary minimum standard and showing 01:09:38
existing imposed boundaries of the access as required name and address for both parties of interest to the lot line adjustment, 01:09:45
current zoning the parcels and areas of dimension for all parcels. 01:09:52
The next page which is our. 01:10:02
This kind of highlights everything. I will tell you that if you look at number two there, we wrote write existing improvement 01:10:06
structures. We currently have some of that in our ordinance, but it hasn't always been enforced. The one thing I want to make sure 01:10:14
we talk about is showing the setbacks if you look at the end of the second line there. 01:10:22
What happens is they'll show me a structure on the building, but won't tell me how far it is. 01:10:30
So for zoning, you have to have minimum step back if you ask 20 feet from the front and the rear and seven and seven from the side 01:10:36
or 7:00 and 9:00. So we're just getting to clarify that. 01:10:42
So there's no misunderstanding that also helps the people buying the property. 01:10:49
They know what they're getting into. If they see something that doesn't meet the zoning requirements, they can deal with that. 01:10:55
One of the things that third line there that we're wanting to start having the surveyors put on the survey is the FEMA flood 01:11:04
zones. 01:11:09
Um, as you know, that's a big target that's, that's changing and, and people are buying parcels and don't know that they're in the 01:11:15
flood. They don't even know how to look that they're in the flood. They don't know that they can go to FEMA and pull up their 01:11:22
parcel and or would turn a minor land division. They don't even have a partial number yet, so they can't see if it's going through 01:11:30
there. So as part of the process that we're wanting to make the changes to. 01:11:37
As we want to show FEMA on there, one of the things we've talked about are in staff has talked about it in the moving forward is 01:11:44
wanting to add the topos on to. 01:11:53
Minor land divisions and lot line adjustments, but state statue says we cannot require them to do a independent. 01:12:02
Study of that, but currently the county is looking at doing that across the county and when that comes into play, we want to come 01:12:11
back to you and, and we would provide that information to them to the surveyors, but they would put it on the minor land division. 01:12:18
And one of the reasons that we came up with is make sure they have a building envelope right? That they they bought this this 01:12:24
parcel and it may not have the proper. 01:12:31
Building envelope because it's in the flood. 01:12:38
Or that's on the slopes. You know, there's a lot of things that can come into play and we want to address that. 01:12:41
It there will be an added expense here, the surveyors, I'm I'm sure going to charge a little bit more to put this information on 01:12:47
there. But again, this is helping the person buying the parcel and it's helping the person selling it that they don't come into 01:12:53
liability either that hey, you sold the parcel. It doesn't even have a building envelope on there for a structure to go on. So 01:12:59
we're looking at that. 01:13:05
We have there's an acknowledgment, so if they don't meet these requirements that we've talked about, they can still record their 01:13:16
easement. They have put acknowledgement on there that this parcel will not get a building permit or youth permit and moving 01:13:23
forward until it comes into compliance. So we're not stopping them from recording it. We're not getting in their way that they 01:13:31
think sometimes, but they have to put that statement on there and then the recorders will. 01:13:38
And it'll be there. And that way anyone coming and purchasing that property will see that there's no building permits or use 01:13:46
permits that's going to be issued until they bring that into compliance and show all those requirements, those five requirements 01:13:51
that were on there to get approved. 01:13:56
If you'll notice up there on the upper right hand corner, I didn't mention the reason we have the lot LA highlighted in red is 01:14:04
because our current ordinance doesn't address this. We do it, we have been doing it, but we're adding that into the ordinance 01:14:10
here. So I just wanted to clarify that. 01:14:16
Lot line adjustments are approved once we end minor land divisions once we get all the information we need. Currently we have 30 01:14:25
days I state statue and by our ordinance that from when the time the surveyors get it to us we have 30 days to. 01:14:34
View all that information and either send it back to them. Like if Scott saw that the math wasn't right, he would send it back to 01:14:45
the surveyors. They would address that, resubmit to us. 01:14:51
I then look at this, I said at the zoning and I will tell you we have even taken our staff once it comes to us and I approve it, 01:14:58
we've sent a notice to the surveyor, bring your Mylar in. I signed the Mylar staff even takes that back down to the recorder to 01:15:07
get recorded for the surveyors. So I mean we're, we're doing everything we can to help this process. 01:15:15
And as you know, especially Supervisor Humphrey. 01:15:24
Is is splitting daily? 01:15:28
And there have been complaints. 01:15:33
About some of that, again we have no say over that. That is Department of Realty. But the stuff that does come to us, we want to 01:15:37
make sure is is correct and as as as properly documented as possible. 01:15:44
One of the good things that we're doing is at the bottom there is you'll see recorder survey. So this is basically you own the 01:15:53
piece of property, you've had a piece of property and you just want to verify where your boundaries are. So you you paying, you 01:16:00
have a record survey done. Currently they submit that to Scott again, he does that math. Then it comes to me and I still look for 01:16:06
all the same stuff, but that's not a requirement. So we're taking that. 01:16:13
Record of survey by itself not a minor land and not a lot of line adjustment. Just a record survey. 01:16:21
Find the foundry that they don't have to go through us anymore. They can just take that down to a recorder and record it. 01:16:26
That way it just opens it up to them. They're not weighing in because I will tell you as it comes to me, I look for my, you know, 01:16:34
buildings and if I have a building going across a lot line record a survey. I'm not going to sign that. And in in words of the 01:16:41
county is saying I'm giving away someone else's property. So now I will agree that a record survey is just showing the boundaries. 01:16:47
The surveyors not doing anything special. It's just showing. 01:16:54
The boundaries for that parcel, but we still don't want to be signing it as the county approving that when it there may be some 01:17:02
issues there. 01:17:05
Um. 01:17:10
The Scott would still do courtesy reviews if they wanted on the on the Roses or any of those things. Cut and Public Works has been 01:17:15
very gracious and doing courtesy reviews for them to see if they can. 01:17:23
Address any of the issues that someone might have missed. That also makes it better for the county. We get a better map or a 01:17:33
better survey in our system and it's it's pretty. 01:17:39
Good thing overall. So the surveyors get a second set of eyes on it and the county gets better surveys. 01:17:49
Next slide. 01:17:57
One of the things on the bottom there is because we don't currently have a fee for landline adjustments because it's not in our 01:18:00
our ordinance. We wanted to add that fee for the work that gets done, but none of the minor land divisions fees would be changing. 01:18:06
This would only be for the lot line. 01:18:12
And with that, I'm open for any questions. I went through that pretty quick, but I. 01:18:19
The ordinance is fairly old and we're just trying to update it just to hear to what the counties growing pains are that we have. 01:18:26
Thank you, Randy. Supervisor Humphrey. 01:18:38
Yeah, again, again, thank you, Randy, because. 01:18:41
You know, I've said the whole time, we're only as good as our ordinances. Some of our ordinances were written. 01:18:46
A long time ago and they just don't fit in the world we live in today. And as painstaking as it is to change ordinances, I 01:18:51
appreciate staff willing to work on changing ordinances so that everybody understands what we're doing and, and one department's 01:18:59
not questioning another or they get an answer from somebody which changes if they ask another department. So, so by having these 01:19:06
ordinances for everybody to read, I think it's a great thing. 01:19:14
Because with our state growing as it is, Hilah County is going to grow. And, and I think trying to get ahead of some of the curb 01:19:22
to help protect people from investors and from themselves and, and what they think they want to do with the property they just 01:19:28
bought, that the people they bought from knew they couldn't do anything and that's why they gave them a good deal on the property. 01:19:34
So. 01:19:41
Again, I I think all the staff very much for the I can attitude. 01:19:48
And, and let, and let's try to help instead of say, well, there's nothing we can do because we're just following our ordinances 01:19:54
even though we have old ones. And, and yeah, we are growing up north and now in Tano and, and I've, you know, hope sometime in the 01:20:01
future we can get some growth growing around here. So. 01:20:07
Just thank you for for again, time, energy and effort and trying to make our complaint list go down because our ordinances read 01:20:15
our ordinances and don't call us because somebody said something and somebody said something else. It's like, you know, and, and 01:20:22
having information on property surveys I think is important because there have been people that call me in and they didn't know 01:20:29
when they bought it so. 01:20:35
Darn the Realtors and darn the investors, but, but. 01:20:43
We're trying, we're trying to help. And I, I thank you very much. Thank you, thank you and thanks Randy for putting this together. 01:20:47
I don't disagree with any of the changes you make and really, and we do need to work on that. Help me to understand, obviously if 01:20:56
there's a minor land division, there must be something called a major land division. So why are we limited to five on a minor land 01:21:04
division, 10 acres or less, 5 parcels. Why can't we do 20? You are not limited. You can do 20. You just become a subdivision. 01:21:13
It just requires a different set of rules. 01:21:23
A different so these people that are. 01:21:25
Maybe their friends or whatever, but they're buying a property, they divide it and they sell it and then that person divides it. 01:21:30
They could forego all of that if they went to a subdivision dynamic. Is it more expensive to do that? There's more steps and then 01:21:38
you're going to have to deal with roads, utilities, you know, there's a lot of that would require water. 01:21:47
And you have to have the 100 year water supply for subdivisions. So there's a lot more to it to do subdivisions. But again, this 01:21:56
the state statue and it's very clear that you can't sell it to your buddy to try to get around the requirements of the 01:22:05
subdivision. But we have no authority in in doing that. And I, I. 01:22:13
At the direction of our County Attorney, I filed complaints. 01:22:22
When people come and say, hey, this is becoming a subdivision out here and I would agree with them, but again, I can only file the 01:22:27
same complaint as anyone else can. If anyone ever thinks there's a subdivision going in, they all can file the same paperwork that 01:22:34
I do that goes to department Realty and they may or may not investigate. I'm sure they're busy too, but. 01:22:42
It does not limit them, it just limits them for the minor land division. 01:22:51
Sure. And that's a suspicion that may occur that we're not going to chase that one down. But let's say you have then a major 01:22:55
section of land, I have 100 acres. Now what? What is the process there to divide that? So again, it depends on how you want to 01:23:03
divide it. You could divide it into 520 acre parcels and then sell your 20 acre parcels to whoever or go to the subdivision or 01:23:10
make a subdivision and put a couple 100 houses out there. OK, good. 01:23:17
Last thing, I do believe we need to be charging for any services that we provide. So to do the $200 lot line adjustment, I think 01:23:25
makes sense that we charge for that. Does it cost us more time and energy to do 2 parcels, 3 parcels, 4 parcels, 5 parcels? Is 01:23:32
there a difference there? There is difference because each one, each parcel has to verify that they have fiscal and legal access, 01:23:39
the zoning requirements. 01:23:46
That go along there. 01:23:54
Any of the utilities that come across there, you know when you have 5 parcels and you're putting them in, a lot of times you have 01:23:56
a well and then they want to run water line across all those. So then we have to go back and check easements and everything on 01:24:02
each parcel and have to record them individually. 01:24:08
So it does take more time when there are multiple um. 01:24:16
Parcels. 01:24:20
We've discussed in the past where. 01:24:23
You're concerned from time to time to make sure that we're charging enough. 01:24:28
So that we can operate the department without the. 01:24:33
Huge deficit. So I guess the reason I ask that is could we not just charge 650 for any land divisions period? 01:24:37
Whether it's 2345 discharge the same fee or would that be something we end up with? 01:24:49
Profiting or doing something? 01:24:57
Like that it's only $150.00 difference and to me it seems like if you're gonna divide your land, one fee would be enough. 01:25:00
That is that is certainly up and we can bring that back when we bring the ordinance back that we would look at that and we can 01:25:09
track the numbers down to make sure that we're not profiting office that we're just covering our cost. I mean, obviously that 01:25:16
would be easier for staff to and and even the land owners that they just, you know, write one check and be done with it and 01:25:22
they've done their. 01:25:28
Their things. So yes, I certainly can look at that. I, I don't have the actual numbers that I could tell you right now that 01:25:35
exactly what they are, but we could look at that. 01:25:39
The reason I ask is because you say we're not changing these fees and this is an ordinance that's aging. And as it's aging, then 01:25:43
that means we're getting more and more behind the number the the, the amount that we need to charge perhaps. And we're running 01:25:50
into that with the landfill, we're running into that with other departments and so. 01:25:56
Anyway, I think we have another participant just to chime in on your permit fees. Mr. Chair, Supervisor Humphrey, Randy, with your 01:26:04
permission, we will have a contract coming to the board next month for the company that will be analyzing all of our fees county 01:26:11
wide and coming back to you with recommendations about what those ought to be based on real costs and future cost expectations. 01:26:18
It's helpful to know that. Thank you so much, Baron. 01:26:25
OK. So I don't have any other questions. Any more comments on what we've done on this item? 01:26:33
OK. I, I don't have, I, I have one more question, Mr. Chair, if I may, and I don't want you to answer it, but it's a question that 01:26:39
I'm sure if we have people on on that, I'm going to get asked. Why does Young not have zoning requirements? I'm not going to ask 01:26:46
you to answer that today. Supervisor client is out, but I'm sure with us talking about growing and minor land divisions and things 01:26:53
of that nature. 01:27:01
That is the question that I'm going to be asked. 01:27:08
But I don't want you to answer it. Thank you. 01:27:12
Yeah, it's an interesting area of the county. 01:27:18
For sure. OK. Thank you, Andy. Thank you for that. 01:27:22
OK. Do we have enough time left Joseph for you today? 01:27:26
We don't want to be late for lunch. It's but. 01:27:31
Let's let's move on to Item 2C and that would be information discussion regarding the past, present and future of the Michelson 01:27:35
Building. Good morning, Joseph. 01:27:39
In the past month, we have strengthened the IGA with the City of Globe and other collaborating with other stakeholders. We would 01:27:46
have would like to regroup and outline a path forward to achieve this. We would like to take a look at the past, where we're at 01:27:52
and where we're moving forward. 01:27:58
I'll try and keep it as quick as I can. 01:28:05
Thank you. 01:28:10
That's when the heart of Globe, AZ, the Michaelson Building at 157 S Broad St. stands as a beacon of history and transformation. 01:28:12
Built in 1929 by the renowned James P Michaelson, who also designed the iconic Masonic Hall, the 7980 square foot building was 01:28:19
initially a grocery store. 01:28:27
With an open air market housed that housed Safeway over the years, it passed through multiple hands from George and Margaret Leach 01:28:36
in 1959. By 1991, Hill Accounting acquired the property for $150,000 and in 1994 it was transformed into Child Support and County 01:28:43
Attorney Investigators office, solidifying its role. 01:28:51
In serving the community. 01:29:01
Hill County's acquisition marked the beginning of a new chapter for the Michaelson Building. Its pivotal role in hosting critical 01:29:04
county services like child support and legal offices showcase the adaptability and value of the historic structure. However, in 01:29:10
2015, as departments moved to the Courthouse Guerrero Building, the Michelson Building stood vacant, awaiting its next opportunity 01:29:16
to serve the people of Globe and Hillock County. 01:29:21
The transformation of the Michelson Building is a true partnership between Healer County and the City of Globe, demonstrating the 01:29:28
power of collaboration to revitalize historic infrastructure. Hill Accounting, as the builders owner have invested over 300,000 in 01:29:36
renovation efforts to date, underscoring its commitment to preserving the future the structure and preparing its future use. 01:29:43
Simultaneously, the City of Globe has been instrumental in securing grants and driving the vision for the building future. 01:29:50
In 2018, City of Globes Linda Netto spearheaded the project, collaborating with Matt Glover of Co Host. 01:29:58
Whose urban renewal efforts in Mesa served as inspiration. This partnership sparked the idea of the transformation of the 01:30:06
Michelson building into a business incubator and shared workspace, setting the stage for an innovative and growth and globes 01:30:12
downtown. 01:30:17
Together, Hill County and City of Globe have successfully secured significant funding, including a $650,000 Build Back Better 01:30:23
Initiative grant, USDA Rural Economic Development Initiative. 01:30:29
Fund the support from Freeport, Macaron, Resolution Copper, as we have mentioned in the past have been great partners. These 01:30:35
combined efforts reflect a balance of collaboration, collaborative approach to revitalization, revitalizing the Michaelson 01:30:42
building for the benefit of the entire community. 01:30:49
The renovation of the Michaelson building is progressing steadily, first starting off with the roof replacement as you can see 01:30:59
here in the slides. 01:31:03
Early abatement efforts addressed significant hazards including the removal of lead based paint and asbestos, ensuring compliance 01:31:12
with contemporary safety standards. Looking ahead, the next phase will focus on mold abatement and the demolition of non essential 01:31:18
interior infrastructure. 01:31:24
Which will pave the way for the buildings transformation into a vibrant business incubator. 01:31:32
These projects are fully contracted and set to commence in December. And fishing. 01:31:37
In early February, marking a crucial step in the renovation timeline. With these efforts, alongside the 2023 roof replacement and 01:31:43
the ongoing structural upgrades, the Michelson building is on track to become a city functional and inspiring cornerstone of 01:31:49
Gloves downtown revitalization. 01:31:54
On the slide here, we cut through. 01:32:09
And outline some of the. 01:32:14
Critical infrastructure was supporting the. 01:32:18
The facility, most of the building or most of the buildings walls on the interior are non load bearing so that is a large portion 01:32:21
of what will be removed. 01:32:25
The transformation of the Max building is about more than bricks and mortar. It's a revitalization of gloves to start downtown, a 01:32:35
spark for economic development. 01:32:39
The path forward as we look into the future for the Michelson Building relies on a strong partnership between the City of Globe 01:32:46
and Hill County Facilities teams. Together, we are working to develop a clear and actionable plan for a design build project. 01:32:53
That will bring the shared vision for the historic structure to life. While the City of Globe will serve as the primary entity 01:33:02
responsible for funding and contracting the project, the Hill Accounting Facilities team will continue to play a critical role as 01:33:07
advisors and oversee the construction management process. 01:33:12
Our expertise will ensure that the project executed effectively, maintaining both the historic integrity of the building and the 01:33:18
functionality as a modern business hub. 01:33:22
With that, I'd be happy to take. 01:33:29
Any questions? Thank you, Joseph. Supervisor Humphrey. Yeah, I don't have many questions, Joseph, because I've asked them as we've 01:33:32
gone along with this building. It's something that and we had a presentation just here a while back with the with the investors in 01:33:38
the building and I appreciate. 01:33:44
All of the people that are willing and kind of revitalizing the the downtown area and, and not only that, it's great to have a 01:33:52
working relationship with the city of Globin and and Freeport to be able to all work together. 01:33:59
On a building that that we all can use or, or like you say for young entrepreneurs for helping them have office space and things 01:34:06
as they want to get started. So I, I, I, it, it. It's too bad that it got in the shape that it did. 01:34:15
Before we started. 01:34:25
Partnering up and getting it fixed, but it it, it will be a great project when we when we get it finished. And like I say, to help 01:34:28
build the relationships with with our other partners in it. 01:34:35
Sure. Thank you for your for your update today and some of the history I I didn't realize some of the history of it, although I 01:34:41
know I know about 5055 years of it. But thank you. 01:34:48
Thank you, supervisor. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Joseph, for you and everyone involved. So. 01:34:56
This is one of those things where you either fix it or tear it down. It's it's a building that's aging and justice needs a lot of 01:35:05
care. And so as we go through that care, I see here on one of your pagers a partnership that the city of Globe is contributing. 01:35:14
A lot 1.4. 01:35:24
And a half million, is that what I'm reading right there? And so will that be enough to complete the planned project with all of 01:35:27
the offices and bathrooms and everything that you have planned for it? With that, Sir, we're highly confident in that estimate. 01:35:33
With that being said, there's still a lot of work that needs to happen, such as the design. And when we go through that design, 01:35:39
we're really going to have a better understanding. 01:35:45
Of what that scope is, I see the concepts here you have a page on concepts. 01:35:52
And pretty extensive. Looks really good so. 01:35:59
I like the front. 01:36:03
Looks modern and vibrant. 01:36:05
I think it's a great thing that we're saving the building and I'm going to put it to good use so. 01:36:09
Yes, Sir. Thank you, Joseph. Thank you, Mr. Chair. One more whom is going to. 01:36:14
Do the design and what what I mean, what it I I can see kind of the breakdown design and so you said do the design on A1 picture. 01:36:22
It looks like it's already been pretty much done. Is that done just a hand drawing to kind of give. 01:36:31
Something of what it might be and and it's not any part of an actual design supervisor. Humphrey, that's a great question. Yes, on 01:36:42
your last point, it's just a concept to give inspiration of what it could look like. 01:36:48
OK. But but going forward with an engineering company, I would guess on who's going to do the design, this is kind of what you're 01:36:55
going to give them for what all the partners would like to see out of the building. I this is when we do give it to him, it'll be 01:37:02
just as a concept. 01:37:08
After we get input from stakeholders, that's what's really going to determine the layout and what it's going to look like. 01:37:16
OK. And when, when do you think the stakeholders are going to get together to kind of give engine engineering it it seems to me 01:37:23
working with engineers in the past, if you give them an open sheet, then gosh, she only knows what you're going to end up with, 01:37:30
you know, bronze statues in the middle of the hall or some darn thing. So anyway, I guess going forward when, when are the 01:37:36
stakeholders going to get together to kind of give some perimeters? 01:37:42
Of a of a design company. We'll be working with the team to look at establishing that, Sir. 01:37:49
OK. In the next six months, next year and a half, it'll it'll be in the next two to three months. It's good. Thank you. No 01:37:57
problem. 01:38:02
Great. Well, I don't know that I have any more questions on that. I'm glad we're proceeding with it. 01:38:07
So thanks for all your effort. Thank you very much. OK. 01:38:14
A little faster than I thought, which is great, so let's keep moving on. 01:38:20
Item 3 is a call to the public. Cassandra, do you have anybody that wants to say anything on the Internet there now? How many do 01:38:26
we have today? 01:38:30
Three, that's great. OK, Anyone here locally in Globe that wishes to address? 01:38:35
US call to the public no. And Tyler anyone in Payson? 01:38:43
OK, great. So let's move on to item number 4, which is our reports. 01:38:51
Manager men love. 01:38:56
This chairman, two things I'd like to bring up today. First of all, at a season of gratitude, long term trust, appreciation to 01:39:00
Healer County employee. We have many great employees that are committed to service, service to the public. I appreciate them. We 01:39:08
all appreciate them and the work that they do to hopefully bring things, make things better for the citizens of Healer County. 01:39:16
And what I acknowledge the Board of Supervisors and as a part of the budget. 01:39:25
Was included at 2% merit raise increase for departments and it'll be similar to what was done last year that departments will be 01:39:29
allowed a a lump sum 2% of their salaries budget to administer as they see fit intended as when there are some issues of 01:39:38
compression that we may be able to address some of those it may be for. 01:39:46
It typically would be tied to a merit increase so that. 01:39:56
Departments can based on personnel evaluations, employee evaluations that they can give raises to those that are a step ahead and 01:39:59
a step above others that they will have that flexibility at the department level. So thank you to the Board of supervised for 01:40:07
allowing that and and looking out for our employees that we can hopefully give a little bit more 2% in January, maybe the first 01:40:14
full paper in January and then the second paycheck employee second. 01:40:22
Check in January that those will take effect. 01:40:29
I wanted to acknowledge the Healer County Provisional Community College District. There's an article in the Arizona Silver Belt, 01:40:35
so I think I can go ahead and speak to that, that there's been significant. 01:40:41
Progress made in the Community College district. We're thankful for them because education is important to our youth that live 01:40:49
here in Gila County and this is a great opportunity that the IT is. The Accrediting Commission for Community and Junior Colleges 01:40:57
peer review team came to both campuses of the Community College district. 01:41:05
Payson and Globe and there is a report that will be due out in January. 01:41:15
That will determine give an assessment of where the college is at and it gave three options that. 01:41:20
I think there's a great hope that the college will continue to move forward and that there's great hope to heal a county that as 01:41:30
an educational entity for Utah County, that there's progress being made and that we're moving forward. So I express appreciation 01:41:36
to the board. 01:41:43
Of the Community College district and to all those that have worked so hard to. 01:41:51
Continue to work and see that there is an educational opportunity for kids and youth and adults that all participate in the 01:41:56
Community College history. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Supervisor Humphrey. 01:42:02
Umm, well, on that note, yeah, it's great to see them moving forward trying to reach out on their own. They went through an awful 01:42:10
lot of heat. But I'm glad to see that the heat in the kitchen is, is creating a, a, a brighter future for, for not only the 01:42:17
people, but our education curriculum that, that, that they will be able to work with. And so that's good. And, and other than 01:42:25
that, I have nothing other than I would like to wish everybody. 01:42:32
Happy Thanksgiving and to have a safe and happy holiday and then this is the time of year for me where life slows down a little 01:42:40
bit and and enjoy things in life and pick up the fight in January. But I wish everybody a safe, happy holiday. 01:42:49
Thank you. And you know, I'll add to that. Let's say thank, thank for everyone here, this meeting, a good meeting and we have two 01:42:59
more this year next week and I think the week two weeks after that or something the 3rd and the 17th if I remember right. And and 01:43:06
then we're done for the year. So happy Thanksgiving everyone and be safe and enjoy your Thanksgiving. And with that, I'll adjourn 01:43:13
the meeting. Thank you. 01:43:20
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
Unable to preview the file.
I said good morning everyone. 00:00:04
OK, We're going to have a work session today. It's November 26th of 2024. It's 10:00 in the morning. And I've asked Eric Mariscal 00:00:08
if you'd leave us in the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 00:00:13
Pledge allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with 00:00:20
liberty and justice for all. Thank you. 00:00:27
Good to see everyone here this morning. 00:00:38
Be myself and Supervisor Humphrey this morning only, and so we'll proceed with the work session. 00:00:42
And we have 3 items. 00:00:50
Which probably will take hours. 00:00:52
The shorter the agenda, the longer the meeting. That's the rule. But anyway, Item 2A is information and discussion regarding 00:00:56
proposed changes in revisions to the Hewitt County ordinance #02-01, which is a right of way ordinance. Good morning, homeroom. 00:01:05
Um, glad to be here again for another work session, chairman and, and, and board members. And we are trying to take advantage of 00:01:17
the dialogue that happens at the work sessions. One of the things that I wanted to say is I was mentored once, 6060 font, 5 pages, 00:01:24
30 minutes. OK. And I'm going to try to live through most of those, but I've already failed the 1st 2:00. There's a 17 slides in 00:01:31
here. 00:01:38
Is the smallest 14 I think, but it's all important information I think. So we'd like to share it with you. And what we're trying 00:01:46
to do is gather the information so we can restart the revision of this right away ordinance. We actually hired someone to to 00:01:53
rewrite this ordinance back in 2022, didn't like the outcome of that write up. It was put on hold and it's been on hold and and 00:02:00
we're going to restart it again and we'll use some of that. 00:02:06
Revisions that were put in place. 00:02:14
But there's a number of permit scenarios that have come up since 2022 that we would like to see addressed in the right of way 00:02:16
ordinance. And so we're going to be sharing those things with you today, OK. And along the way, if you have any questions, don't 00:02:22
hesitate to stop me. There is some information later on that may be affected by the question, but will handle the questions as you 00:02:28
presented. OK. 00:02:34
And and I do have a team here. 00:02:41
The team is. 00:02:44
The public works team that worked on the right of way ordinance that you see Alex and you see Sam, our new surveyor and Scott, 00:02:46
John and Steve Williams are here today and they played a role and plus others have played a role in this, in this outline of what 00:02:55
we think the ordinance should have. So let's start with the ordinance revision, the next slide please. 00:03:03
Is is meant to expand the scope of the ordinance in order to include permitting requirements for covert driveways? 00:03:12
Right way tie insurance and to provide a process to follow in the right of way work being done without a permit when the right of 00:03:19
way work is being done without a permit we'd like to see a process for that permit violations also how to address permit 00:03:27
violations enrollment process and to rewrite for clarity the permit requirements for utilities to work on right of ways. The 00:03:34
original the ordinance that were that were revising was written in 2002 and its main focus was. 00:03:41
Utility work in right of ways OK it it didn't concern itself with. 00:03:49
Property owners doing Co works and driveway tailings and so we'd like to add that to the ordinance. 00:03:54
Let's see if I can remember how. 00:04:08
Workplace. So we have some definitions and we're going to use these definitions in our discussion today and potentially in the 00:04:11
ordinance itself. So the first one is a right of way. It is the full width of the tract of land dedicated for public 00:04:17
transportation that includes all components of the road, including the travel way, the shoulders, the ditches and the utility area 00:04:24
on the road. 00:04:31
Oftentimes on our roads and I'll, I'll probably repeat this later on. 00:04:39
You see water meters in a ditch because the road is too narrow. And so we're putting two things in the same place. And that's a 00:04:43
problem for everybody. It's a problem for us, it's a problem for the utilities, problem for maintenance. And we'd like to see we 00:04:50
can find a way to deal with that going forward. And it's in here in one of the slides. The other one is county right of ways. It's 00:04:57
simply refers to roads maintained by the county. And in the slide you see a number of different county right of ways. 00:05:05
Ways that we do anything with them from a permitting standpoint and we're going to address that in some of the slides here when we 00:05:43
use the word public right of way we and I'll probably use it and then what it means it's all public right of way whether they're 00:05:50
maintained or not OK and a public utility company as a public service corporation recognized by Arizona Corporation Commission via 00:05:58
certificate of conveyance and necessity and the and or a licensed by. 00:06:05
To provide telecom services. So when we think of a utility, we're gonna think of a utility in that way in this PowerPoint 00:06:13
presentation. And then right away encroachments, we're gonna talk about encroachments. And I just wanted to try to define it. 00:06:20
It's, it's something that impacts the ability to use the right of way as a 2 lane Rd. at the posted speed limit. And your input 00:06:27
now and along the way will help with with the rest of the presentation. 00:06:34
So far so good. 00:06:43
Humphrey Yeah, yeah. So it's a work session, so something anytime I I had some questions, but you said there would be slides on it 00:06:45
later. So I'm going to wait for the slides later. And I checked them and if I don't get my answers slides later, then I have 00:06:51
marked which ones I have questions on. Very good. 00:06:56
Mr. Chair, thank you. I have no questions either. So on the next slide it talks about. 00:07:03
Who needs a right away permit and when are they required? And the short answer is anyone working on a public right of way needs a 00:07:11
right of way permit. And so the list is public utility company property owners, commercial property owners and, and those are the 00:07:18
groups that we're going to be talking about in in the rest of the slides. 00:07:24
But anyone working on a right away needs a permit. 00:07:32
So I wanted to just share some things and I, I know that we deal with public utility company franchises separately. Clerk of the 00:07:37
Board handles those franchises and we recently approved two of them. But I just wanted to touch base because I think what's 00:07:43
included in that franchise agreement is very important. 00:07:49
And and certainly public works need to take advantage of what's in those franchise agreements. But the franchise agreement grants 00:07:57
a utility a license to use public right of ways. OK. And later on we're going to talk about what does that mean? Does that mean 00:08:02
county maintain roads? 00:08:07
Or all public right of ways for the purposes of this of this presentation, when we talk about an ability of a, a, a franchise 00:08:13
public utility company using the right of ways, we're going to, we're going to say it's all public right of ways, whether they're 00:08:20
maintained or not. And later on we'll seek legal counsel through the County Attorney and or consultants and we'll figure out if is 00:08:27
it really what is meant by a public right of way in the franchise agreement. 00:08:35
And in the in the state statutes or not, are we are we just limited to county maintained roads or can we require a right away 00:08:43
permit for franchises on all public roads? OK. And again in this presentation it assumes that it's all public right of ways, OK. 00:08:53
And those things can be easily changed. We just say, no, we want to go this way. We're going to go that way. I'm just, I'm just 00:09:03
when we think about what we're talking about here, it's all when we're going to require a right away permit from franchise public 00:09:11
utility companies on all public right aways. So we, we started the franchising back in 2016 and today we have. 00:09:19
27 plus franchise agreements water, electrical and sewer and the elements of a franchise if you were to read the franchise 00:09:28
agreements and you have. 00:09:32
It's a very powerful document. It talks about insurance and talks about indemnification. It is a 25 year agreement for a fee of 00:09:37
$350.00. It's non exclusive. It holds the county harmless for damages to the to the the public utility system as a result of 00:09:44
county maintenance or construction and the county may request for those lines to be relocated if they interfere with Rd. 00:09:52
maintenance. And so it's a well written document. 00:09:59
Very much and choice the state statute it it puts the burden entirely in the utility company for any expenses. 00:10:07
OK. 00:10:14
So Romero, if I could interrupt, you might be coming to this. So tell me you're coming, but. 00:10:19
What assurances do we have if a utility does something in one of the roads that we maintain and does not restore that roadway 00:10:25
appropriately? SO11 of the slides that's addressed that. And basically we can require them to do it. We can do it ourselves and, 00:10:33
and bring and bring those costs to them and we can cancel the franchise agreement, OK. 00:10:42
So public utility companies that did not have a franchise. So we have public. So what do we do with a public utility company that 00:10:52
comes to us and says I want to apply for a right away permit, I don't have a franchise. Do we tell them you can't, you can't do 00:10:58
your work. You have to wait till you get a franchise agreement, the franchise agreements. 00:11:05
Require board approval to just post the franchise and it's a three-week public notice and then a second board meeting to approve 00:11:13
the franchise. So if somebody doesn't have a franchise that comes to public work and we say you need a franchise. 00:11:20
Then they're probably 3-4 months wait for them. OK Or we could have something like a license that says, OK, we're going to have, 00:11:27
we're going to give you a one time license to do the work that you've described and it would have. 00:11:33
Almost identical requirements as a franchise agreement, but on top of that it would have in an assurance for the work to be 00:11:41
performed a bond. 00:11:44
For the work to be performed and we could give them a one time license at basically almost the same cost as a as a franchise 00:11:48
agreement and really encourage them to go get a franchise agreement. OK, they have to do satisfy all the requirements of a 00:11:54
franchise agreement. But we so in in writing this this ordinance we would like to we're going to be addressing that we're going to 00:12:01
pick one way or the other based based on input that we get today. 00:12:08
And again from the legal counsel input that we'll get after we finish writing the ordinance. 00:12:16
Wanted to show you a couple of pictures. The first one shows a water tank and a right away. And I'm not I'm not going to pick on 00:12:23
the water company. Is it? It is at a dead end. Is it at the dead end of this road? This road connect doesn't connect to anywhere 00:12:30
at the end. They may have been doing the turnarounds at that at that end of the right of way. But again, it's a it's a utility 00:12:36
that is in a right of way and maybe it's it's been there for a long time. 00:12:43
And maybe they did talk to the county about it. Maybe they didn't. 00:12:50
But it's an example of how utility, if we don't monitor their work, we'll put the utility in the most convenient place for them. 00:12:54
The other one that shows Tonto Basin County Maintain Rd. that's that's a, that's a road. It is maintained by the county. Somebody 00:13:02
does a trench and the trench was going to be left to be found out about it on a Friday. 00:13:11
We felt that that was a safety hazard. 00:13:20
We took our action to do some traffic control for it so that it could survive the weekend without somebody falling in the trench. 00:13:24
And then we work with with that person. We was a person, not a utility doing the work. And in this ordinance we would not allow a 00:13:32
person to do work, utility work. We would only allow utilities to do utility work, a person. 00:13:40
A property owner who do work in the right away just for their culverts and their driveway. Tie insurance. 00:13:49
But but utility work on a on a public right of way would only be allowed for public utility companies. 00:13:56
I have a question on something like that. No matter who's doing the work, could we put something in there that they have to notify 00:14:07
us if they are working on a weekend so we can be a little more observant of? Because nobody works on a weekend and a lot of these 00:14:15
things are done on weekend, so could they be asked to? 00:14:23
On the permit to. 00:14:32
Let us know if they're going to be working on weekends and what weekend exactly. If they, if they applied for a permit, we would 00:14:34
put the requirements of traffic control. You can't leave a trench uncovered overnight. These are typical requirements that we put 00:14:40
on a right of way permit. The problem here, they did not apply for a permit and so it was worked without a permit that was taking 00:14:46
place. Had it been permitted, we would have had a problem. First of all, we would have questioned why is the person doing the work 00:14:51
in a utility. 00:14:57
2nd, we wouldn't allow Friday afternoon work, late Friday afternoon work to happen without them having the provisions of steel 00:15:05
plates over the trench or having filled in yet. You're right. And so when work happens on a weekend, it it unpermitted, it is 00:15:14
problematic and we need to find a way to when we when, when we do find out that that happened, that it whoever's doing. 00:15:24
Work and it's in one of the slides pay double the fee, reimburse the county for any work we do, including going out there on a 00:15:33
weekend and and and monitoring the work when somebody calls in. But there there ought to be something that discourages people to 00:15:39
try to do right away work without a permit. Now utilities responsibilities wouldn't do that. OK, the gas company here wouldn't do 00:15:45
that. 00:15:52
That the larger electrical utility companies wouldn't do that and so so but but it does happen. 00:15:59
And it is a problem for us. 00:16:04
OK. So Honero, would this typically get blue staked to do this trench that you're showing? Would it typically be blue stick by a 00:16:08
utility? Yes, we put the burden of blue staking on the right away permit holder. So if this individual. 00:16:17
Had a call for a blue stake on this trench that he dug. Would we be notified of that, that it was permitted or not permitted, or 00:16:28
so he could call for a blue stake, get it and still dig? 00:16:34
No, we would not be notified that. 00:16:41
It was blue state and we don't believe that they blue state that area. 00:16:45
Well, that's pretty dangerous, but still I'm just so my my question was if it gets blue state, does it require a permit to do the 00:16:49
blue stake? No. 00:16:54
They wouldn't notify us and we don't believe that they called it in, OK. And that's two separate like departments, entities, 00:17:00
everything to where we don't communicate with the blue state people. 00:17:06
We can bring that up with them to see if they that they can notify us for for that and we'll take that as an action item. OK, 00:17:13
thanks. 00:17:18
OK. So the next slide is Allison Drive in Pine. This is a public right of way that's not maintained by the county. 00:17:28
County actually has a quick claim through this road. OK, so in in essence you could say the county owns the road, but the board 00:17:39
has never taken action to accept this this quick claim and accept this role and therefore we don't maintain. 00:17:46
OK, it's a 35 foot public right of way. And when you think of roads in Healer County, that's that's a pretty wide Rd. However, if 00:17:54
you look at it, there's about 15 feet between vehicles and, and the, and the other item that you look at here is one neighbor 00:18:01
parks and RV. And so now it's OK to park a car in a county right away, then another neighbor parks and RV and pretty soon this 00:18:09
public Rd. that we don't maintain, but it's still a public road and it can be enjoyed by the people. 00:18:16
That that that use it as a public Rd. has become a parking lot. And that's an issue that we see often and you begin to see in the 00:18:24
picture. It's not just vehicles, it's trailers and equipment and other things, OK. 00:18:31
So we're trying to address that in the ordinance. And then in the next slide you see a picture of South Park Road and meets Ranch. 00:18:39
And what you see is that the right of way actually extends full foot behind the fence. The fence encroaches on the right away by 00:18:45
about four sheep. 00:18:52
So when a utility company see that and they get a right away permit, they'll assume that the fence is the edge of the right away 00:18:59
and they'll put the beater on the roadside of the fence instead of on the other side where it could be long and pretty soon you 00:19:04
end up with a very narrow Rd. 00:19:09
And water meters are a big problem for Elia County, OK and and they often encroach on the travel way. And the other picture is a 00:19:15
picture of Navajo Dr. The company came to us to get a permit for a right of way. We gave them a right away permit thinking that 00:19:23
they were going to trench some some reasonable amount. This is a road that's a platted Rd. It is. 00:19:31
A public Rd. that has never been built out. It's what we call the paper Rd. 00:19:40
It exists on a plat. It was dedicated. In fact, this road in essence was accepted by the county on that plan. But we have never 00:19:45
maintained it. And it's not a maintained road. And they and they don't want it to be a maintained Rd. but they but because it is a 00:19:51
public Rd. we, the utility company came to us. We gave them right away and they took every tree out and created a drainage issue 00:19:57
for the people downstream. 00:20:04
And it's, it's again, it's us, our staff being. 00:20:11
Cognizant of the these these things can happen and taking the proper precautions in the engineering drawing and the other 00:20:19
information that's provided to us. But the utility company also should have known better. You don't tear down a 12 foot path or a 00:20:24
trench that only requires 2 feet. 00:20:29
Anyway, those are problems that we've encountered along the way. 00:20:37
So the next slide is about right away permit requirements for public utility companies on all public right of ways new 00:20:41
construction and I tried to highlight the slide with blue and maybe I missed a few, but we already require most of these things, 00:20:48
OK. The things that we don't require are shown in red. 00:20:56
A license if the board agrees that we can issue a license for a one time use of the right of way. 00:21:05
Where there is no franchise and also grading and drainage permit will be required for paper rolls. 00:21:12
And and and. 00:21:18
Normally when you think about work on a right of way, if if all you're doing is you're digging a trench and you're putting the 00:21:21
road surfers back to the same elevation with no changes to the road surface, it basically says why do you need upgrading and 00:21:27
drainage permit? You haven't changed drainage and we can accept that logic except on paper roads where a road doesn't exist and so 00:21:33
a grading and drainage should be required. 00:21:39
On all paper rows. 00:21:46
To avoid the issue of, but basically everything that you see on this slide other than what's in red is already required by the by 00:21:48
the current ordinance and by roadway design standards manual. 00:21:54
So that was utility companies doing new construction. The next slide is utility companies doing planned repairs and emergency 00:22:02
repairs and so. 00:22:07
The current ordinance doesn't really refer to plant repairs, OK, but instead it requires a permit for any work on the right of way 00:22:15
by a utility. So because it's it's written like that staff over the many years, and I'm not talking about our current staff, but 00:22:23
the staff over the many years has may or may not have required a right of way ordinance for plant repairs. 00:22:31
But we should require an ordinance for, for, for planned repairs because we want to know first of all, we want to make sure that 00:22:39
they have traffic control and we want to make sure that they have insurance because it's our, it's our, some of those are the, 00:22:43
some of these roads are ours. 00:22:48
And we bear that liability And so, and we want to make sure that they are not changing the alignment of the utility. And if they 00:22:52
are changing the alignment of the utility, then we go back to new construction, requiring them to do the, the things that are 00:23:00
required of new construction. So in a planned repair, we, we wouldn't need necessarily an engineering drawing a site plan would be 00:23:07
good enough. They're not changing anything. So we, we, a site plan would be sufficient for us. 00:23:15
Less work for the utility, but nonetheless we we think that we should require, it should be clear in the ordinance that we would 00:23:23
require a right of way permit for a utility company for plant repair and then emergency repairs so. 00:23:29
The existing ordinance does mention emergency repair and of course, if it's an emergency, they should do the work and they should 00:23:38
notify us in in here. I've added 24 hours. The ordinance was unclear as to when they give us a notification, but they should 00:23:46
notify us by phone or e-mail in 24 hours. Actually, I think the ordinance is in three days. OK, but because now that the e-mail 00:23:53
exists, that maybe didn't exist. It's the way that it's used today, in 2002. Today you can send us. 00:24:00
And often people pick it up on their phone and we know that there's an emergency repair taking place. And then three days after 00:24:08
the emergency takes place, they need to give us the paperwork to say why was this an emergency and what was performed, the site 00:24:15
plan and photos of that work. And of course, all of these Rd. repairs are not final until the county approves. OK. So those are 00:24:22
the things that would remain in our ordinance or be revised in the ordinance. 00:24:29
The next slide, this is all new and reason for the red bond at the top is because everything here is new. We've had policy perhaps 00:24:37
on how do we how we replace Culvers, but we but it's not found its way to any ordinance, OK. And the policy is unwritten, OK. So 00:24:44
over the years public works have done what what the public works director thinks he's right, OK. And and it's changed over time 00:24:52
and we want to make sure that this is in writing and that we have a way to answer questions about. 00:24:59
What does the county do with culverts? Now some counties do what's on this piece of paper, other counties do not do anything. The 00:25:07
culvert is at the cost at at the entire cost of that coverage on the property owner. OK. And so there's there's different ways of 00:25:15
doing this and it's board input will guide us as to which way we go. So the proposal is that. 00:25:22
That if somebody wants to install a new program. 00:25:33
And it's the owner that's that's making the request because if the county wants, if our, if our Rd. yards want to install a 00:25:36
culvert for and it benefits the road, we we don't need the owners. 00:25:42
Permission, because the right of way is ours will notify the owner, but we can take that action by ourselves. OK, But now if 00:25:50
somebody is requesting a call and it's and it's a new, it's a new covert. 00:25:56
We would, we would allow. 00:26:05
Folks through places as many as 2 covers per parcel. 00:26:07
And they would buy the covert and we would we would install it. 00:26:12
If they want more than two culverts and they need an engineering plan to show us why they need more than two and and the plan 00:26:17
needs to show us that the coach is going to work efficiently and not cost a problem for us. The maximum size of the cover would be 00:26:24
18 inches and the minimum distance would be approximately 30 feet and the ordinance will probably make it 30 feet and that 30 feet 00:26:32
is driven from the roadway design standard manual that does tell us what the dimension between. 00:26:39
But it uses a you have to, you have to use math based on the size of the culvert you're measuring to the median of of the two 00:26:48
culvers and it and it ranges between something like 30 and 20 feet. So we would pick, we will pick a dimension that says the 00:26:55
maximum distance between. 00:27:01
I'm sorry, the minimum distance between the callers will be X today. We're thinking it's going to be 30 feet on that orbit, 00:27:09
allowing our staff to clean out those forwards when they need to. And that's, that's the whole driver for that minimum distance. 00:27:16
To replace an existing covert on the county right away. So somebody calls in and says I want you to replace this cover and that 00:27:25
culvert meets the county dimension of 18 inches. Then we would replace it at no cost. It's which is we would consider that part of 00:27:31
main the maintenance for that work. Ditches and culverts are an essential part of a road. OK. And water is like I mentioned 00:27:38
before, water is roads worse than I mean. So we want the water off the road it being carried away. 00:27:45
And so there's an existing culvert that that meets the 18 inch requirement. We would replace ourselves. And if it's not, if it's a 00:27:52
smaller culvert, then we would go back to the property owner, say you have to buy the culvert, we'll install it as if it were new, 00:27:58
OK. 00:28:03
If on other public roads. 00:28:10
That the county does not maintain the property owner would be responsible for all the work. They would not be. We would, they 00:28:14
might, they may apply for a right away permit, but they would, we would tell them that what they need is a greedy and Greenwich 00:28:22
permit to to, to do that work, assuring us that he's not causing harm to other folks downstream and or upstream. 00:28:29
With the installation of that so for non county maintained growth it's entirely in the owners expense and would require a grading 00:28:38
and drainage permit. 00:28:42
So the next slide is new residential driveway tie insurance and. 00:28:51
If this is not necessarily today addressed in the right of way ordinance, but it is addressed in the local design standards 00:28:58
manual, OK and the low wage design standard manual, it's a very technical manual that guides folks on what to do for new road 00:29:04
construction. 00:29:11
And it includes driveway targets. And so we would incorporate that into the right of way ordinance. A right away permit would be 00:29:18
required. We would make sure that they're complying with the standards manual. 00:29:26
All driveway costs are funded by the property owner. So they're putting in a driveway and part of that driveway is in our right of 00:29:37
way, but but it's their driveway and all cost belongs to that, to that property owner. And either the work, this is again 00:29:43
residential, either the work is performed by a registered insured contractor or the property owner provides proof of insurance. 00:29:50
Property owner wants to do it, show us proof of insurance because we're liable for that road, OK. 00:29:57
And by the way, I'm talking about county right aways in this first section, OK, in the bottom section, I'll be talking about 00:30:05
everything else. 00:30:09
For a road that we maintained, we would have these requirements. A site plan and traffic control would be required. It's it's our 00:30:14
Rd. We have liability for it. Grading and drainage permit may be required. We've seen evidence of or examples of where people put 00:30:20
in a covert or a driveway and it causes some problems upstream and we want to make sure that there are no drainage issues. It may 00:30:27
include a covert installation if it does. 00:30:34
As part of this residential driveway tie in, the county would install that that particular cover. 00:30:41
OK. So then if it's not a county right away, if it's not a road to be maintained and it's one of those public right of ways that 00:30:48
we do not maintain, it would require a breathing and drainage permit, OK. It wouldn't require a right away permit. It does not 00:30:56
require compliance. The way we're thinking is that this does not require compliance with roadway design standards manual. 00:31:04
You know, we could, we could pick the option and say why not? Why aren't we requiring that of this residential driveway? 00:31:13
And some counties do, Maricopa County, for instance, does. Most counties don't OK, if you're not, if, if we don't maintain that 00:31:23
road, we want to be as far away from any liability with that road as possible. However, there is there's two sides to that. One of 00:31:29
them is one of these days they may apply for that rule to be maintained by the county. And so if that's the case, why didn't we 00:31:35
require the things that we would normally require for our roads? 00:31:41
And based on board of supervisor input and our our legal team, the County Attorney and other consultant, we will we may change 00:31:49
that over time, but. 00:31:56
Today, the way this is written, we would just require grading a drainage permit and the grading and drainage permit would probably 00:32:03
require traffic control as part of that permitting process. All driveway driveway tie in costs are funded by the property owner of 00:32:10
course and including the design, material and installation. 00:32:16
Any questions? 00:32:24
I'm good, thank you. 00:32:29
Something just came to my mind on the road we were discussing at East Verde Estates, Kings King King Rd. Kings Rd. So it's very 00:32:31
problematic Rd. drainage issues, all of that. So if we were to the county were to take the attitude of OK well these are citizens 00:32:40
of the county that have trouble. This is a non maintained Rd. by the county. What can we do to help? 00:32:49
It would, would that be the attitude that we would have? You know, let me show you what we can do. 00:32:59
This is how we can accomplish a better end result. 00:33:06
Versus just coming to a black and white decision of we're not going to accept that road, we're not going to do this or that. Do we 00:33:11
have a means where we can assist? 00:33:17
There's 8 or 10 property owners there that are struggling with some real serious roadway problems. 00:33:24
That's a that's a complicated issue. We are planning a work session, hopefully end of January. 00:33:34
To talk about roads, abandoning roads, accepting roads I. 00:33:42
And today we have, because there have been some. 00:33:47
Folks interested in asking the county to maintain that role. We, we have developed a little, a little template that says here's 00:33:54
the things that you should be satisfying and here's how this role ranks against those items. There's two or three things that that 00:34:01
really in my mind stands out. One of them is the traffic count. 00:34:08
How does that road compare with all the other 750 miles of non maintained county roads? 00:34:16
And the other one is drainage. Drainage is a major issue and it's a forever issue, doesn't go away. It's not like where we can we 00:34:23
can add gravel to the road. Drainage waters got to go somewhere and you need to know where that water is going to go when we 00:34:28
accept the road. 00:34:32
And those two things always need to be at the top. I think of our minds as we move forward the, the, the January work session, 00:34:38
we'll start with, we've been receiving because you've heard this before, $9 million a year to maintain growth in 2007, something 00:34:44
like that. Forget that. And and that money has not increased over time and there's little expectation for us to expect that to 00:34:50
increase. And so if there is an upper limit to what we can maintain, then we we need to consider that in, in that formula of 00:34:56
making. 00:35:02
Official which votes to accept. Now, there may be roads that we shouldn't be maintaining and interesting, it's interesting that 00:35:08
the Forest Service has mentioned a couple of them to us and we're going to work with them and, and and with the board as to 00:35:14
whether or not we should continue to maintain those roads. But that's that's something that we should be looking at and that's all 00:35:20
part of a much longer discussion. 00:35:26
In a future work session to to talk about roads because I think we need to have that discussion again, that's been left very much 00:35:33
to our director of public works to make all those decisions and it changes with with with the director. 00:35:40
And we should have guidance on that, that we follow as we move forward. If the the only strict part about that is we can, we don't 00:35:47
maintain a road unless the board approves for us to maintain that road that that policy has always been followed. 00:35:54
I didn't answer your question, I don't think. But well, no, it's, it's not a very clear question. Obviously the So let's say 00:36:01
there's 8 owners on there. They all signed a petition. We want this fixed. And so as a particular owner, so let's say I own one 00:36:08
piece of that and say, well, I want to put some money toward this. It's a private kind of a private road. The county doesn't 00:36:15
accept it, but it's a paper road and so. 00:36:21
But no one else wants to put money toward it. So nothing ever happens. Nothing ever gets done because no one can all get together 00:36:28
at one time to do it so. 00:36:33
My concern from the position I have would be, well, how can we best serve the public in this way? And so that was my question. Is 00:36:39
there any means to help them facilitate a cooperation with each other to get that? That's a, that's a nasty Rd. I went up on it a 00:36:47
few days ago and it's bad and it's like a driveway. So King, Kings Rd. that's the name of the world, right? 00:36:56
We actually met with those folks. I think we met with them three times and one, one time with most of the folks that lived on the 00:37:06
road and the other times with just the individual person. 00:37:10
And, and we did coach him on what we expected for them to do with drainage, OK. And I was joined by, by by the road yard folks, by 00:37:15
the surveyors, by flood control in, in those visits. And we, we kind of have laid out for them what we think. 00:37:25
Should be done the ability of one owner to convince seven other people. That remains to be seen. I I'd be willing to host a 00:37:35
meeting with them with, with the group and, and try to guide the discussion a little bit. But it's, it's, it's a difficult thing. 00:37:42
They all need to agree and they all need to allow water to flow where it needs to flow. And, and sometimes we can't find that 00:37:48
ready solution. 00:37:55
Sometimes we can't fix that. 00:38:03
I've been to other places. I think it's Round Valley, where we have laid out what the requirements were to bring those roads in to 00:38:05
maintenance. Those are much different kind of roads in much better shape. They're actually maintained by the group right now. 00:38:12
And it has ample Eastman drainage. We we told them what we wanted for drainage and they're willing to do it. And they haven't come 00:38:21
back to the table because the whole community isn't in agreement to do that yet. Some people don't want the road to be maintained 00:38:26
by the county. 00:38:31
OK, and so they need to resolve that under all. 00:38:38
OK. Thank you. 00:38:43
Thank you. 00:38:46
Again, on this commercial property right away culverts that blue is meant to show things that we that are in the ordinance that we 00:38:48
can do today. And if you're a commercial property and you want a driveway, a culvert or a driveway tie in either or both on a 00:38:56
county right away on a road that we maintain, then you would need a right away permit. You'd have to comply with our manual. 00:39:04
You would need a grading. A grading and drainage permit may be required. 00:39:14
Work to be performed by a registered contractor and the corporate and driveway and the driveway tie in installation is funded by 00:39:17
that property owner. This is very much what we did with The Perrys, by the way, when The Perrys came to us and they said we want 00:39:25
this driveway, we asked them to do these things. We actually asked them to do a traffic study as well. 00:39:32
And they did that to show us that it was in the right place and would be a safe driveway. But so these would be. 00:39:41
In my mind they're already required. They should be the standard requirements for a commercial driveway tie in and a covert all 00:39:51
other right of ways that are not maintained by the county for commercial properties. It would revert back to a breathing and 00:39:56
drainage permit. Would not have to meet the manual. 00:40:02
And all costs are still with the property owners. 00:40:10
We're almost there. I think we're slide 15 out of 17. 00:40:18
And these last couple of slides are? 00:40:23
Are important. 00:40:29
So the current ordinance addresses breaches to a permit. The ordinance that we have today says if you got a permit, we can and you 00:40:31
don't comply, we can revoke that permit. 00:40:37
And if we revoke the permit and we have to do something on the road, we're going to bring those costs back to you. 00:40:43
You're gonna have to pay for reasonable cost for us to restore the road. 00:40:49
It does not address. 00:40:55
Working without a permit. It does not talk about working without a permit. 00:40:58
And it does not have a sense of urgency when dealing with a violation of a right of way permit. So the way I think of a right of 00:41:04
way permit, if, especially if it's one of our right of ways and we're liable for that road and somebody ***** a ditch right next 00:41:10
to the road. This is not like a complaint from somebody who says my neighbor hasn't cut his weeds. This is about that. At any 00:41:17
moment somebody can fall in that trench and the county gets through. 00:41:23
OK. And so that in my opinion there's there should be a sense of urgency about that. So what do we do? 00:41:31
Whether you get that, especially if you did that without a permit and we need to do something. So with that in mind. 00:41:37
There's two there's two things that can happen on a failure to obtain a right away permit. 00:41:47
The work is ongoing. You're doing the work just like we saw in that picture. We found out on a Friday that somebody's doing the 00:41:55
work. What do we do? Well, we use common sense. Steve Williams and I worked on that and Steve went out there and put some blinking 00:42:00
lights and. 00:42:05
And tape and other things. So just make sure that we at least offered the public some some notice that that trench was there OK. 00:42:11
And so in this particular case it we would issue a seasoned assist letter. The work is ongoing. We would issue a cease and desist 00:42:20
letter and we would require permit compliance in three days for them to come into the office and and and and and. 00:42:28
Comply with the permit that the right of way permit fee would double for for all requirements of of that right away permit. 00:42:37
If permit later on, if it's if work, whatever work has been done that we can't see, we would require pothole and we want to know 00:42:45
that it's something is very 3 foot deep and where it's located. OK, So potholing at the expense of the violator and road repairs 00:42:53
would have to be undertaken and they would not be completed or approved by the county. If it's a traffic hazard like that road 00:43:00
was, the county will take immediate, immediate action and charge back. There's no need. 00:43:08
About it, take immediate action, make the road safe and they're going to pay for it, for our time, for the traffic control 00:43:15
devices, whatever, whatever we use. If the permit compliance is not complete in three days, if they have not come in to do 00:43:22
something, then we'll take another look at the situation and take whatever necessary action we think is appropriate to make the 00:43:28
road safe for the long term. 00:43:35
Not just for the weekend. Then we would be looking at. We want to make this road safe for the long term. This person is not 00:43:42
responding. 00:43:45
And it's our, it's a public, it's a, it's a public road. And we want to make it safe. And we would charge them back for any work 00:43:49
that we do. 00:43:53
If the permit compliance is not obtained in seven days, then and it's a property owner, not a, not a utility, it's a property 00:43:58
owner. We would schedule a hearing with a hearing officer and we would give them five days notice and bring them in front of the 00:44:05
hearing officer, OK. If it's a utility company, we would schedule a board meeting to take action to terminate the franchise for 00:44:13
the license that may have been issued. And of course they would still be responsible for the cost that we incur. 00:44:20
For the restoration of the road. 00:44:28
We were filed with Superior Court to collect reimbursement for work performed by the county. And again we would be seeking County 00:44:32
Attorney, County Attorney does have an opinion on that and we need to blend that in with what we do. What do we do afterwards to 00:44:39
collect that money because the situation is different than we go cut somebody's weeds down. We put a lien on the property, but we 00:44:46
can't put a lien on a public right of way. It basically belongs to us. So we'd be putting a lien on ourselves. So if somebody. 00:44:54
In our public right of way, we need to figure out how do we go back and make sure that we get reimbursement because the lack of 00:45:01
getting reimbursement results in people working on right of ways on a weekend. 00:45:06
And we need to be meaningful in how we go about making sure that people know if they're going to violate the right of way 00:45:14
ordinance, they're they're surprised to pay. 00:45:19
And for the hearing officer, for the property owners, we would be changing right away ordinance to talk about the typical fee per 00:45:26
day and the typical fee per day that's used by the hearing officer is $700.00 a day. And I think you also find that in the state 00:45:33
statutes. So those are things that we were thinking about incorporating into the ordinance. 00:45:41
For failing to get a permit, OK. 00:45:50
Next slide is I wanted to talk a little bit about Rd. design. 00:45:57
So they have a mini Ave. meaningful discussion on on encroachments. We need to look at that that the Gila County Roadway Design 00:46:01
Standard manual does not have a design for a gravel Rd. 00:46:07
What you see here in the with the green font that is for a pav row and I went through that manual and I found the the road with 00:46:15
the least right of way with and it's a it's a low volume Rd. 00:46:22
That has traffic of 25 mph and the minimum right away width is 50 feet OK. 00:46:31
And what what I'm showing on this slide is a gravel Rd. that measures 40 foot wide. 00:46:40
And you see two vehicles, they're approximately sized in scale to this role the pickup trucks have nowadays. Some of them get 00:46:46
close to being 7 foot wide. So the ditch is 2 to one slope, 1 foot deep. It's a very shallow, small ditch. Basically there is an 00:46:55
area outside of the ditch for utilities placement. 00:47:03
And when you Add all these components up, it's 40 feet. There is no shoulder on this road, by the way. 00:47:12
It's just a travel way 11 feet normally there's some footage shoulder on most roles, so this would be a minimum #40 feet. If you 00:47:19
look at other counties like Navajo County or gravel, the smallest gravel right away with is 54 and 54 is pretty common. So it 00:47:27
allows for utilities to be placed outside of the ditch. Otherwise you're putting the water meter in the ditch if it's something 00:47:34
like 24 foot wide. So the next slide shows us a rope that's. 00:47:41
Would like and in this particular rule you can see that. 00:47:49
If you park, if you park just one vehicle, and if you even if you park it in the ditch, you're really obstructing flow. 00:47:55
Traffic flow for something as 24 foot wide and I just wanted to show that that visualization so that we can talk about obstruction 00:48:03
on public right of ways. 00:48:10
And the reason we want to talk about this is we do get numerous complaints about people parking on the roads. And what we do is we 00:48:18
struggle with that every time and try to each time we try to invent what do we do in this particular case? What have we done in 00:48:25
the past? And and we don't necessarily have a policy or a ordinance that directs us in what what we should be doing. And I am 00:48:32
looking for that prescriptive process because not having that is. 00:48:40
County attorney's time and we take up a lot of staff time to try to figure out what we do. And often times we end up doing, I'm 00:48:48
going to say nothing. We're not acting quick enough. And so I'm looking for how do we if we're going to say no and let's have the 00:48:55
no ready to go so that we can tell them no, we're not doing anything. And, and, and we didn't and we don't waste the energies and 00:49:03
the time. If the expectation is that we do something, then what is that something? OK. 00:49:10
And So what is that something is on this particular slide. If it's a county right away and the road belongs to the public and the 00:49:18
county maintains it and there's an obstruction, obstruction defined by meaning you can't travel on this hill something like the 00:49:25
gate or similar to a date and obstruction then we remove upon discovery other words, it's it's a road. We maintain the public 00:49:33
expect to travel on that road. You put something and you're not allowing traffic. 00:49:40
Through Rd. yard. Go remove that. 00:49:48
It should be that simple. OK, if it's an encroachment where you're impeding the flow of travel and you can't meet the speed and 00:49:51
you no longer can travel two way traffic at the allowable speed limit. Oftentimes when I think of that, I think of a minimum turns 00:50:00
of 20 feet. And by the way, this was brought up at one of your town hall meetings, Supervisor Christensen where the. 00:50:08
Fire departments get up and say we need 20 foot of width on a road to to to be able to respond. 00:50:17
So I'm using that as being a minimum clearance that's required. Anything less than that is an encroachment. OK, So we give them 15 00:50:23
days. If it's an encroachment and it still allows traffic at least one way, 15 day notice is given to the property owner or, or or 00:50:30
is placed on the encroachment. If we don't know who the property owner is and it's a trailer without a license plate, we put it on 00:50:38
the trailer. OK. And this, by the way, follows the state statue. 00:50:45
In in the section on transportation that has to do with state highways, but also allows. 00:50:53
The subdivisions of the state, like the county to utilize this, the encroachment would be removed and a person responsible. After 00:50:58
the 15 days, the enforcement would be removed and the person responsible for the enforcement would pay for that cost. 00:51:04
Now, if it's some equipment that doesn't, we can't identify the owner, we may be picking it up and never get paid for it. OK. But 00:51:11
if it's a, it's a licensed vehicle or a vehicle that, that's sitting there, we, we may or may not get paid for, but so we, we say, 00:51:19
well, are we worried about people paying for us eventually? Or are we worried about making this rope passable? And, and, and so we 00:51:26
need to, we need to answer that question as we move forward and we will file with Superior Court to collect. 00:51:33
And again, County Attorney would like for us to find a different way than to that to go through Superior Court. And I put that 00:51:41
down because it was in the state statue allowing subdivisions of the state to behave like this. But this is still subject to legal 00:51:47
review. And again, we're going to take the input from the board, finish writing that ordinance and and get it into the County 00:51:53
Attorney for their review. 00:51:59
So that's where county right of ways, other public roaches and obstruction or encroachment. 00:52:06
We can do the same thing that we have up here, or we can simply tell them, hey, that's an issue that you need to take up. 00:52:12
The property, whoever has that property, we don't maintain that role. 00:52:18
And again, we've used that in the past for the county. I think the sheriff may have used that. If it's not a county maintained Rd. 00:52:23
we can't do anything. 00:52:27
And, and if that's, and if that's our position, I would be, I'm OK with the positions that we take, but I just want them to be in 00:52:33
writing. And again, it's because I don't, I don't want to treat one person one way because I'm the director today, another 00:52:39
director comes in tomorrow. We treat another person differently. There should be guidance on what do we do for roads that are not 00:52:44
maintained by the county. 00:52:49
And somebody parks on it. So then the last item is I want to talk about no parking. 00:52:55
We could. The board could decide it's OK for us to include it in the ordinance or to have a separate resolution that says no 00:53:05
overnight parking on any public roads that have widths of 20 feet or less. 00:53:10
You park there, you're obstructing that first responder. 00:53:16
So park, park on your property, OK, That's an option. The other one is, and I'm referring to the road on on Pine that I showed you 00:53:20
the picture. I think it's Allison Rd. the community members and you saw the cars parked on both sides. It's 35 foot wide. It's a 00:53:28
public Rd. There's no reason why traffic should be obstructed. Community members may come to the board and request no parking on a 00:53:35
specific Rd. segment, OK. 00:53:43
And it would require a number of property owners to petition. The board could be something like 50% for property owners that are 00:53:51
abutting on the road. It would require a public meeting and a report from the county engineer. And then based on that, the board 00:53:57
could take action. Let's say we're going to post at no parking and a resolution that gives the sheriff the authority to haul those 00:54:04
vehicles away based on that designation. 00:54:10
And and those are some ideas that we think are worth for us to consider. 00:54:18
And that's it for my flight. I'm ready to get to have whatever discussion we need to have at this time. 00:54:22
OK. First of all, I would like to thank you very much and all the staff and departments that have put time and energy into your 00:54:33
presentation today because the amount of time and hours and and thought and communication. 00:54:41
Between the departments, from engineering to the road department, to all the people that work on this, you know, putting this 00:54:49
together to even bring to us, I appreciate the effort because we do have issues. And up until now, it's like everybody just shrugs 00:54:57
their shoulder, looks at engineering, shrugs your shoulder, looks at the road department, shrugs your shoulder, call the so say, 00:55:04
hey, is there anything we can do? And so, you know, putting time, energy and effort. 00:55:12
And to this, I think is it a can of worms? Yes, it is. But is it one that's never been looked at that you are taking bringing to 00:55:19
us with the opportunity to look at it? I appreciate it very much. 00:55:26
And so, you know, talking about code enforcement, I, I, I think that's great, you know, because we started it for, for blight and 00:55:34
I appreciate staff working very hard. You know, when I first came on board for blight, our hearing officer and our code 00:55:41
enforcement officer were both paid county employees. So if we put a penalty on somebody, we couldn't do anything about it. And so 00:55:48
then it, you know, then. 00:55:55
Planning and zoning is using it for, you know, health like raw sewage and building without a permit. And so it's great to see that 00:56:03
perhaps maybe you, the road department and these right aways and some things can also get some use out of the code enforcement and 00:56:11
the fact that we can write people citations and turn them over to a collection agency. 00:56:20
To, to be able to write some of these wrongs instead of just shrug your shoulders. Because if, if, if there's not any penalties 00:56:29
and I and, and I don't mean everybody needs to be penalized in the. 00:56:34
Different cases, but, but if you, if you tell somebody they got to move their car or else and there's nowhere else, then they're 00:56:40
going to park four more cars there and and give you the peace sign because there's nothing we can do so. 00:56:47
I think it's great that you're opening this and giving us the opportunity to move forward on a lot of these. And, and you know, 00:56:56
like you say, you put a lot of time, energy and effort and, and I'm behind you 100% and how you deal with it. Like no overnight 00:57:02
parking, okay. You know, I mean, that's, that could be something or just an hour, you know, on a 20 foot Rd. you can only park 00:57:09
there for six hours. 00:57:15
Because you know what if they work at night, so they park there. 00:57:23
All day they're still obstructing our emergency vehicles, but if they're there for a birthday party, you know, we're not 00:57:27
penalizing. They can, they can be there for six hours, so. 00:57:32
And and working on, you know, trying to work with some of these people on on so-called paper roads. 00:57:38
We've got a lot of issues with that because there was an ordinance in the beginning and like Quail Ridge in, in my area, we've got 00:57:46
a utility going up that so-called Rd. that's exposed because nothing, no maintenance is being done on that. 00:57:54
Because everybody owns a piece of the road and they're all fighting and it ends up in lawsuits. And, and I, I even quit wondering 00:58:04
what lawsuits going on now. I used to try to fix it. And it's like some of these lawsuits have got to get over with before we can 00:58:10
come to any agreement. And you know, the county had. 00:58:16
Worked with the utility company to work with them and they were going to furnish the material and we're going to do the labor to 00:58:24
kind of surface this and get some utilities covered. Well, you know, then with the people in lawsuits there, we, we never could 00:58:31
obtain all the easements, which is a, you know, a difficult deal. So on deals like that, if the property owners have a have agreed 00:58:38
at some point in time to have a road on their property. 00:58:45
Through legal is there any, is there any teeth in in that We could, you know, like a supervisor Christian has the issue where 00:58:54
we're not everybody could agree well if they agreed to have a road, is there not something legal that hey, you know, if if you own 00:59:01
half of that road, well then 10 feet of it you have already said it can be a road. So you can't just say no, I don't want anything 00:59:08
done there because you you know so as we look into this further, is there legally something. 00:59:16
That there's a road there and and somebody gave permission for easement for that road to be there. So is there some legal way that 00:59:23
we could make them liable for their original agreement to allow their neighbors to get to their property and now they're saying 00:59:30
no, but anyway. 00:59:37
I, I thank you very much. I, I agree with a lot of it. And like I said, I didn't disagree with any of it. And I appreciate you 00:59:45
looking at it and, and putting that time and energy and effort because you, you were the, you know, the departments that have put 00:59:50
time and energy in this. 00:59:56
Are the ones that deal with this every day on on where people are working and how they're working and not obtaining permits and 01:00:02
so. 01:00:07
I'm I'm very much in favor of expanding our code enforcement, even if we have to expand our expense of a second code enforcement 01:00:13
officer to handle some of the things that we need to deal with and heal account so. 01:00:22
Thank you very much. Thank you, Supervisor Christian, I think I'm finished. Thank you. 01:00:33
Romero, I'll extend my thanks to you as well and the staff involved with this. 01:00:42
What my impression is that there's just a few changes to the existing ordinance, and I would agree with all of the suggested 01:00:49
changes and additions. I do believe that we should have in place on your page #6 about those that do not have a franchise to give 01:00:58
them. It's kind of a one off thing. They need to do some digging. They need to put something in. 01:01:07
They don't need to wait four months to do that to get through process. 01:01:17
So I mean, if they're going to want to be there for years to come, then they need to have a franchise. But. 01:01:23
They just need to do one thing. It's OK. Umm. 01:01:28
My first impression on this photo you have of Ellison Drive and quite a number of the roads you're Speaking of do exist in the 01:01:33
Pine and Strawberry Control Rd. area. These are older communities developed back in the 50s or so, and there's been sort of this. 01:01:44
Understood, Norm that we're going to park here, we're going to store something here. We're going to and the photo you show here, 01:01:57
there's it's more than parking, it's storage. There's people putting their trailers there and if they're turning it into their 01:02:02
property. 01:02:07
So they're not going to be happy to be told to move that. However, it is a public safety concern. If a fire truck can't get down 01:02:15
that road or turn back around or do anything, it is not their property. 01:02:22
So we need to do and I realize this is a transition, but it's time I think for Healer County and these areas to. 01:02:30
To grow up, in a sense, we are maturing as a county and this is not 60 years ago when you could do just whatever you wanted and no 01:02:42
one really cared or noticed. Now we have much more congestion and public safety and easement and utilities. They need to be able 01:02:51
to move and get into these places. So I agree with the changes you're making. 01:02:59
I realize there's probably going to be a challenge to enforce. 01:03:07
However, we do need to have the. 01:03:13
We need to have it in place. We need to make these appropriate changes. I agree with that and I do thank you for that. 01:03:16
Thank you. 01:03:23
So is that the end of your presentation? 01:03:25
We're done. OK, thank you for your input. Any more comments on that one? 01:03:29
OK. All right. Thank you, Romero. And as time goes on, if you do have comments, make sure you. 01:03:35
Sure. OK. Thank you. All right, so we'll move on then to Item 2B. And this is information discussion regarding proposed changes to 01:03:41
the Healer County Minor Land Division ordinance. Good morning, Randy. Morning, supervisors. By the way, I have 5 flights, so I met 01:03:49
Homer's requirements. Clearly, you get the Gold Star. 01:03:57
So by the way, it's the same staff that they talked about Scott and Sam and and Alex and Homer and me and stuff and working on 01:04:06
this too. So I want to give staff some kudos too. 01:04:13
So the ordinance that we're talking about was adopted in 1989. It was last changed, had a minor change in 2006. 01:04:21
So there's a state statue that goes along with minor land divisions that is 11831. Minor land divisions are land that are split 01:04:32
into 5 parcels or fewer and are less than 10 acres. 01:04:39
We have a lot of people that split and then re split and then re split and then re split. 01:04:49
You're only allowed to do it 5 splits, then you sell it, and then if someone else splits it and there's enough land there, they 01:04:56
can do that. But you're not supposed to be doing that in any way to try to get around the subdivision requirements, which is over 01:05:03
5 lots. And again, we have nothing to do with that. That is all through the Department of Real Estate. 01:05:11
We have no control or no say over that, so I just wanted to bring that up. 01:05:19
We also, it says the state statute the county may not deny approval of any land division that meets the requirements of this 01:05:25
section. So this is not up to us to just say we don't like it, we can't do with it if they meet the requirements we are not 01:05:30
allowed to deny. 01:05:36
And those requirements are partial meets minimum aptical zoning requirements. Now the question is, does that apply to Young? And 01:05:43
Young would not be denied because they don't meet zoning ordinance because there are no zoning ordinances there. Well, there are 01:05:51
some, but overall Young does not have zoning. So this would not be denied for not meeting the zoning. 01:05:59
The applicants provide a preliminary title report or acceptable document that demonstrates legal access to parcels. 01:06:09
Appkin provides a statement from a licensed surveyor or engineer or other evidence acceptable to the county that each partial has 01:06:18
a physical access that is transversible by a 2 wheel drive passenger vehicle. If you will get into this a little bit, but 01:06:24
basically. 01:06:31
The Fiscal Asset access is statement on the survey that says you can get there by a car. 01:06:38
The legal, I mean, sorry, yeah, that's not legal address or access is we're wanting to make a change that it requires a 24 foot 01:06:46
Rd. and Homer just went through that and explained why we would want that. 01:06:52
The applicant reserves reserves the necessary and appropriate utility easements to serve each parcel created by a minor land 01:07:01
division. 01:07:05
It's an absolute acknowledges that it is unlawful to attempt to avoid the subdivision laws by acting in concert to divide parcels 01:07:11
of land into six or more parcels. 01:07:16
So currently we're doing most of the stuff, some of the stuff that's in our ordinance we have not enforced. We have a couple of 01:07:26
things we want to add to help enforce this as we move forward. 01:07:33
So a record of survey for a minor land division drawn by a lands surveyor, meaning all Arizona Boundary Service survey minimum 01:07:40
requirements and showing existing proposed boundaries access utility easements. What currently happens now is when a surveyor 01:07:49
draws up a minor land division, they submit that to Scott, Warren or Sam and they do the math and they make sure those lines. 01:07:58
Closed and meet the requirements. 01:08:08
Once Scott does that, he also looks over the overall form of it. He shifts it to me a