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Transcript
I said good morning everyone. 00:00:04
OK, We're going to have a work session today. It's November 26th of 2024. It's 10:00 in the morning. And I've asked Eric Mariscal 00:00:08
if you'd leave us in the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 00:00:13
Pledge allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with 00:00:20
liberty and justice for all. Thank you. 00:00:27
Good to see everyone here this morning. 00:00:38
Be myself and Supervisor Humphrey this morning only, and so we'll proceed with the work session. 00:00:42
And we have 3 items. 00:00:50
Which probably will take hours. 00:00:52
The shorter the agenda, the longer the meeting. That's the rule. But anyway, Item 2A is information and discussion regarding 00:00:56
proposed changes in revisions to the Hewitt County ordinance #02-01, which is a right of way ordinance. Good morning, homeroom. 00:01:05
Um, glad to be here again for another work session, chairman and, and, and board members. And we are trying to take advantage of 00:01:17
the dialogue that happens at the work sessions. One of the things that I wanted to say is I was mentored once, 6060 font, 5 pages, 00:01:24
30 minutes. OK. And I'm going to try to live through most of those, but I've already failed the 1st 2:00. There's a 17 slides in 00:01:31
here. 00:01:38
Is the smallest 14 I think, but it's all important information I think. So we'd like to share it with you. And what we're trying 00:01:46
to do is gather the information so we can restart the revision of this right away ordinance. We actually hired someone to to 00:01:53
rewrite this ordinance back in 2022, didn't like the outcome of that write up. It was put on hold and it's been on hold and and 00:02:00
we're going to restart it again and we'll use some of that. 00:02:06
Revisions that were put in place. 00:02:14
But there's a number of permit scenarios that have come up since 2022 that we would like to see addressed in the right of way 00:02:16
ordinance. And so we're going to be sharing those things with you today, OK. And along the way, if you have any questions, don't 00:02:22
hesitate to stop me. There is some information later on that may be affected by the question, but will handle the questions as you 00:02:28
presented. OK. 00:02:34
And and I do have a team here. 00:02:41
The team is. 00:02:44
The public works team that worked on the right of way ordinance that you see Alex and you see Sam, our new surveyor and Scott, 00:02:46
John and Steve Williams are here today and they played a role and plus others have played a role in this, in this outline of what 00:02:55
we think the ordinance should have. So let's start with the ordinance revision, the next slide please. 00:03:03
Is is meant to expand the scope of the ordinance in order to include permitting requirements for covert driveways? 00:03:12
Right way tie insurance and to provide a process to follow in the right of way work being done without a permit when the right of 00:03:19
way work is being done without a permit we'd like to see a process for that permit violations also how to address permit 00:03:27
violations enrollment process and to rewrite for clarity the permit requirements for utilities to work on right of ways. The 00:03:34
original the ordinance that were that were revising was written in 2002 and its main focus was. 00:03:41
Utility work in right of ways OK it it didn't concern itself with. 00:03:49
Property owners doing Co works and driveway tailings and so we'd like to add that to the ordinance. 00:03:54
Let's see if I can remember how. 00:04:08
Workplace. So we have some definitions and we're going to use these definitions in our discussion today and potentially in the 00:04:11
ordinance itself. So the first one is a right of way. It is the full width of the tract of land dedicated for public 00:04:17
transportation that includes all components of the road, including the travel way, the shoulders, the ditches and the utility area 00:04:24
on the road. 00:04:31
Oftentimes on our roads and I'll, I'll probably repeat this later on. 00:04:39
You see water meters in a ditch because the road is too narrow. And so we're putting two things in the same place. And that's a 00:04:43
problem for everybody. It's a problem for us, it's a problem for the utilities, problem for maintenance. And we'd like to see we 00:04:50
can find a way to deal with that going forward. And it's in here in one of the slides. The other one is county right of ways. It's 00:04:57
simply refers to roads maintained by the county. And in the slide you see a number of different county right of ways. 00:05:05
Ways that we do anything with them from a permitting standpoint and we're going to address that in some of the slides here when we 00:05:43
use the word public right of way we and I'll probably use it and then what it means it's all public right of way whether they're 00:05:50
maintained or not OK and a public utility company as a public service corporation recognized by Arizona Corporation Commission via 00:05:58
certificate of conveyance and necessity and the and or a licensed by. 00:06:05
To provide telecom services. So when we think of a utility, we're gonna think of a utility in that way in this PowerPoint 00:06:13
presentation. And then right away encroachments, we're gonna talk about encroachments. And I just wanted to try to define it. 00:06:20
It's, it's something that impacts the ability to use the right of way as a 2 lane Rd. at the posted speed limit. And your input 00:06:27
now and along the way will help with with the rest of the presentation. 00:06:34
So far so good. 00:06:43
Humphrey Yeah, yeah. So it's a work session, so something anytime I I had some questions, but you said there would be slides on it 00:06:45
later. So I'm going to wait for the slides later. And I checked them and if I don't get my answers slides later, then I have 00:06:51
marked which ones I have questions on. Very good. 00:06:56
Mr. Chair, thank you. I have no questions either. So on the next slide it talks about. 00:07:03
Who needs a right away permit and when are they required? And the short answer is anyone working on a public right of way needs a 00:07:11
right of way permit. And so the list is public utility company property owners, commercial property owners and, and those are the 00:07:18
groups that we're going to be talking about in in the rest of the slides. 00:07:24
But anyone working on a right away needs a permit. 00:07:32
So I wanted to just share some things and I, I know that we deal with public utility company franchises separately. Clerk of the 00:07:37
Board handles those franchises and we recently approved two of them. But I just wanted to touch base because I think what's 00:07:43
included in that franchise agreement is very important. 00:07:49
And and certainly public works need to take advantage of what's in those franchise agreements. But the franchise agreement grants 00:07:57
a utility a license to use public right of ways. OK. And later on we're going to talk about what does that mean? Does that mean 00:08:02
county maintain roads? 00:08:07
Or all public right of ways for the purposes of this of this presentation, when we talk about an ability of a, a, a franchise 00:08:13
public utility company using the right of ways, we're going to, we're going to say it's all public right of ways, whether they're 00:08:20
maintained or not. And later on we'll seek legal counsel through the County Attorney and or consultants and we'll figure out if is 00:08:27
it really what is meant by a public right of way in the franchise agreement. 00:08:35
And in the in the state statutes or not, are we are we just limited to county maintained roads or can we require a right away 00:08:43
permit for franchises on all public roads? OK. And again in this presentation it assumes that it's all public right of ways, OK. 00:08:53
And those things can be easily changed. We just say, no, we want to go this way. We're going to go that way. I'm just, I'm just 00:09:03
when we think about what we're talking about here, it's all when we're going to require a right away permit from franchise public 00:09:11
utility companies on all public right aways. So we, we started the franchising back in 2016 and today we have. 00:09:19
27 plus franchise agreements water, electrical and sewer and the elements of a franchise if you were to read the franchise 00:09:28
agreements and you have. 00:09:32
It's a very powerful document. It talks about insurance and talks about indemnification. It is a 25 year agreement for a fee of 00:09:37
$350.00. It's non exclusive. It holds the county harmless for damages to the to the the public utility system as a result of 00:09:44
county maintenance or construction and the county may request for those lines to be relocated if they interfere with Rd. 00:09:52
maintenance. And so it's a well written document. 00:09:59
Very much and choice the state statute it it puts the burden entirely in the utility company for any expenses. 00:10:07
OK. 00:10:14
So Romero, if I could interrupt, you might be coming to this. So tell me you're coming, but. 00:10:19
What assurances do we have if a utility does something in one of the roads that we maintain and does not restore that roadway 00:10:25
appropriately? SO11 of the slides that's addressed that. And basically we can require them to do it. We can do it ourselves and, 00:10:33
and bring and bring those costs to them and we can cancel the franchise agreement, OK. 00:10:42
So public utility companies that did not have a franchise. So we have public. So what do we do with a public utility company that 00:10:52
comes to us and says I want to apply for a right away permit, I don't have a franchise. Do we tell them you can't, you can't do 00:10:58
your work. You have to wait till you get a franchise agreement, the franchise agreements. 00:11:05
Require board approval to just post the franchise and it's a three-week public notice and then a second board meeting to approve 00:11:13
the franchise. So if somebody doesn't have a franchise that comes to public work and we say you need a franchise. 00:11:20
Then they're probably 3-4 months wait for them. OK Or we could have something like a license that says, OK, we're going to have, 00:11:27
we're going to give you a one time license to do the work that you've described and it would have. 00:11:33
Almost identical requirements as a franchise agreement, but on top of that it would have in an assurance for the work to be 00:11:41
performed a bond. 00:11:44
For the work to be performed and we could give them a one time license at basically almost the same cost as a as a franchise 00:11:48
agreement and really encourage them to go get a franchise agreement. OK, they have to do satisfy all the requirements of a 00:11:54
franchise agreement. But we so in in writing this this ordinance we would like to we're going to be addressing that we're going to 00:12:01
pick one way or the other based based on input that we get today. 00:12:08
And again from the legal counsel input that we'll get after we finish writing the ordinance. 00:12:16
Wanted to show you a couple of pictures. The first one shows a water tank and a right away. And I'm not I'm not going to pick on 00:12:23
the water company. Is it? It is at a dead end. Is it at the dead end of this road? This road connect doesn't connect to anywhere 00:12:30
at the end. They may have been doing the turnarounds at that at that end of the right of way. But again, it's a it's a utility 00:12:36
that is in a right of way and maybe it's it's been there for a long time. 00:12:43
And maybe they did talk to the county about it. Maybe they didn't. 00:12:50
But it's an example of how utility, if we don't monitor their work, we'll put the utility in the most convenient place for them. 00:12:54
The other one that shows Tonto Basin County Maintain Rd. that's that's a, that's a road. It is maintained by the county. Somebody 00:13:02
does a trench and the trench was going to be left to be found out about it on a Friday. 00:13:11
We felt that that was a safety hazard. 00:13:20
We took our action to do some traffic control for it so that it could survive the weekend without somebody falling in the trench. 00:13:24
And then we work with with that person. We was a person, not a utility doing the work. And in this ordinance we would not allow a 00:13:32
person to do work, utility work. We would only allow utilities to do utility work, a person. 00:13:40
A property owner who do work in the right away just for their culverts and their driveway. Tie insurance. 00:13:49
But but utility work on a on a public right of way would only be allowed for public utility companies. 00:13:56
I have a question on something like that. No matter who's doing the work, could we put something in there that they have to notify 00:14:07
us if they are working on a weekend so we can be a little more observant of? Because nobody works on a weekend and a lot of these 00:14:15
things are done on weekend, so could they be asked to? 00:14:23
On the permit to. 00:14:32
Let us know if they're going to be working on weekends and what weekend exactly. If they, if they applied for a permit, we would 00:14:34
put the requirements of traffic control. You can't leave a trench uncovered overnight. These are typical requirements that we put 00:14:40
on a right of way permit. The problem here, they did not apply for a permit and so it was worked without a permit that was taking 00:14:46
place. Had it been permitted, we would have had a problem. First of all, we would have questioned why is the person doing the work 00:14:51
in a utility. 00:14:57
2nd, we wouldn't allow Friday afternoon work, late Friday afternoon work to happen without them having the provisions of steel 00:15:05
plates over the trench or having filled in yet. You're right. And so when work happens on a weekend, it it unpermitted, it is 00:15:14
problematic and we need to find a way to when we when, when we do find out that that happened, that it whoever's doing. 00:15:24
Work and it's in one of the slides pay double the fee, reimburse the county for any work we do, including going out there on a 00:15:33
weekend and and and monitoring the work when somebody calls in. But there there ought to be something that discourages people to 00:15:39
try to do right away work without a permit. Now utilities responsibilities wouldn't do that. OK, the gas company here wouldn't do 00:15:45
that. 00:15:52
That the larger electrical utility companies wouldn't do that and so so but but it does happen. 00:15:59
And it is a problem for us. 00:16:04
OK. So Honero, would this typically get blue staked to do this trench that you're showing? Would it typically be blue stick by a 00:16:08
utility? Yes, we put the burden of blue staking on the right away permit holder. So if this individual. 00:16:17
Had a call for a blue stake on this trench that he dug. Would we be notified of that, that it was permitted or not permitted, or 00:16:28
so he could call for a blue stake, get it and still dig? 00:16:34
No, we would not be notified that. 00:16:41
It was blue state and we don't believe that they blue state that area. 00:16:45
Well, that's pretty dangerous, but still I'm just so my my question was if it gets blue state, does it require a permit to do the 00:16:49
blue stake? No. 00:16:54
They wouldn't notify us and we don't believe that they called it in, OK. And that's two separate like departments, entities, 00:17:00
everything to where we don't communicate with the blue state people. 00:17:06
We can bring that up with them to see if they that they can notify us for for that and we'll take that as an action item. OK, 00:17:13
thanks. 00:17:18
OK. So the next slide is Allison Drive in Pine. This is a public right of way that's not maintained by the county. 00:17:28
County actually has a quick claim through this road. OK, so in in essence you could say the county owns the road, but the board 00:17:39
has never taken action to accept this this quick claim and accept this role and therefore we don't maintain. 00:17:46
OK, it's a 35 foot public right of way. And when you think of roads in Healer County, that's that's a pretty wide Rd. However, if 00:17:54
you look at it, there's about 15 feet between vehicles and, and the, and the other item that you look at here is one neighbor 00:18:01
parks and RV. And so now it's OK to park a car in a county right away, then another neighbor parks and RV and pretty soon this 00:18:09
public Rd. that we don't maintain, but it's still a public road and it can be enjoyed by the people. 00:18:16
That that that use it as a public Rd. has become a parking lot. And that's an issue that we see often and you begin to see in the 00:18:24
picture. It's not just vehicles, it's trailers and equipment and other things, OK. 00:18:31
So we're trying to address that in the ordinance. And then in the next slide you see a picture of South Park Road and meets Ranch. 00:18:39
And what you see is that the right of way actually extends full foot behind the fence. The fence encroaches on the right away by 00:18:45
about four sheep. 00:18:52
So when a utility company see that and they get a right away permit, they'll assume that the fence is the edge of the right away 00:18:59
and they'll put the beater on the roadside of the fence instead of on the other side where it could be long and pretty soon you 00:19:04
end up with a very narrow Rd. 00:19:09
And water meters are a big problem for Elia County, OK and and they often encroach on the travel way. And the other picture is a 00:19:15
picture of Navajo Dr. The company came to us to get a permit for a right of way. We gave them a right away permit thinking that 00:19:23
they were going to trench some some reasonable amount. This is a road that's a platted Rd. It is. 00:19:31
A public Rd. that has never been built out. It's what we call the paper Rd. 00:19:40
It exists on a plat. It was dedicated. In fact, this road in essence was accepted by the county on that plan. But we have never 00:19:45
maintained it. And it's not a maintained road. And they and they don't want it to be a maintained Rd. but they but because it is a 00:19:51
public Rd. we, the utility company came to us. We gave them right away and they took every tree out and created a drainage issue 00:19:57
for the people downstream. 00:20:04
And it's, it's again, it's us, our staff being. 00:20:11
Cognizant of the these these things can happen and taking the proper precautions in the engineering drawing and the other 00:20:19
information that's provided to us. But the utility company also should have known better. You don't tear down a 12 foot path or a 00:20:24
trench that only requires 2 feet. 00:20:29
Anyway, those are problems that we've encountered along the way. 00:20:37
So the next slide is about right away permit requirements for public utility companies on all public right of ways new 00:20:41
construction and I tried to highlight the slide with blue and maybe I missed a few, but we already require most of these things, 00:20:48
OK. The things that we don't require are shown in red. 00:20:56
A license if the board agrees that we can issue a license for a one time use of the right of way. 00:21:05
Where there is no franchise and also grading and drainage permit will be required for paper rolls. 00:21:12
And and and. 00:21:18
Normally when you think about work on a right of way, if if all you're doing is you're digging a trench and you're putting the 00:21:21
road surfers back to the same elevation with no changes to the road surface, it basically says why do you need upgrading and 00:21:27
drainage permit? You haven't changed drainage and we can accept that logic except on paper roads where a road doesn't exist and so 00:21:33
a grading and drainage should be required. 00:21:39
On all paper rows. 00:21:46
To avoid the issue of, but basically everything that you see on this slide other than what's in red is already required by the by 00:21:48
the current ordinance and by roadway design standards manual. 00:21:54
So that was utility companies doing new construction. The next slide is utility companies doing planned repairs and emergency 00:22:02
repairs and so. 00:22:07
The current ordinance doesn't really refer to plant repairs, OK, but instead it requires a permit for any work on the right of way 00:22:15
by a utility. So because it's it's written like that staff over the many years, and I'm not talking about our current staff, but 00:22:23
the staff over the many years has may or may not have required a right of way ordinance for plant repairs. 00:22:31
But we should require an ordinance for, for, for planned repairs because we want to know first of all, we want to make sure that 00:22:39
they have traffic control and we want to make sure that they have insurance because it's our, it's our, some of those are the, 00:22:43
some of these roads are ours. 00:22:48
And we bear that liability And so, and we want to make sure that they are not changing the alignment of the utility. And if they 00:22:52
are changing the alignment of the utility, then we go back to new construction, requiring them to do the, the things that are 00:23:00
required of new construction. So in a planned repair, we, we wouldn't need necessarily an engineering drawing a site plan would be 00:23:07
good enough. They're not changing anything. So we, we, a site plan would be sufficient for us. 00:23:15
Less work for the utility, but nonetheless we we think that we should require, it should be clear in the ordinance that we would 00:23:23
require a right of way permit for a utility company for plant repair and then emergency repairs so. 00:23:29
The existing ordinance does mention emergency repair and of course, if it's an emergency, they should do the work and they should 00:23:38
notify us in in here. I've added 24 hours. The ordinance was unclear as to when they give us a notification, but they should 00:23:46
notify us by phone or e-mail in 24 hours. Actually, I think the ordinance is in three days. OK, but because now that the e-mail 00:23:53
exists, that maybe didn't exist. It's the way that it's used today, in 2002. Today you can send us. 00:24:00
And often people pick it up on their phone and we know that there's an emergency repair taking place. And then three days after 00:24:08
the emergency takes place, they need to give us the paperwork to say why was this an emergency and what was performed, the site 00:24:15
plan and photos of that work. And of course, all of these Rd. repairs are not final until the county approves. OK. So those are 00:24:22
the things that would remain in our ordinance or be revised in the ordinance. 00:24:29
The next slide, this is all new and reason for the red bond at the top is because everything here is new. We've had policy perhaps 00:24:37
on how do we how we replace Culvers, but we but it's not found its way to any ordinance, OK. And the policy is unwritten, OK. So 00:24:44
over the years public works have done what what the public works director thinks he's right, OK. And and it's changed over time 00:24:52
and we want to make sure that this is in writing and that we have a way to answer questions about. 00:24:59
What does the county do with culverts? Now some counties do what's on this piece of paper, other counties do not do anything. The 00:25:07
culvert is at the cost at at the entire cost of that coverage on the property owner. OK. And so there's there's different ways of 00:25:15
doing this and it's board input will guide us as to which way we go. So the proposal is that. 00:25:22
That if somebody wants to install a new program. 00:25:33
And it's the owner that's that's making the request because if the county wants, if our, if our Rd. yards want to install a 00:25:36
culvert for and it benefits the road, we we don't need the owners. 00:25:42
Permission, because the right of way is ours will notify the owner, but we can take that action by ourselves. OK, But now if 00:25:50
somebody is requesting a call and it's and it's a new, it's a new covert. 00:25:56
We would, we would allow. 00:26:05
Folks through places as many as 2 covers per parcel. 00:26:07
And they would buy the covert and we would we would install it. 00:26:12
If they want more than two culverts and they need an engineering plan to show us why they need more than two and and the plan 00:26:17
needs to show us that the coach is going to work efficiently and not cost a problem for us. The maximum size of the cover would be 00:26:24
18 inches and the minimum distance would be approximately 30 feet and the ordinance will probably make it 30 feet and that 30 feet 00:26:32
is driven from the roadway design standard manual that does tell us what the dimension between. 00:26:39
But it uses a you have to, you have to use math based on the size of the culvert you're measuring to the median of of the two 00:26:48
culvers and it and it ranges between something like 30 and 20 feet. So we would pick, we will pick a dimension that says the 00:26:55
maximum distance between. 00:27:01
I'm sorry, the minimum distance between the callers will be X today. We're thinking it's going to be 30 feet on that orbit, 00:27:09
allowing our staff to clean out those forwards when they need to. And that's, that's the whole driver for that minimum distance. 00:27:16
To replace an existing covert on the county right away. So somebody calls in and says I want you to replace this cover and that 00:27:25
culvert meets the county dimension of 18 inches. Then we would replace it at no cost. It's which is we would consider that part of 00:27:31
main the maintenance for that work. Ditches and culverts are an essential part of a road. OK. And water is like I mentioned 00:27:38
before, water is roads worse than I mean. So we want the water off the road it being carried away. 00:27:45
And so there's an existing culvert that that meets the 18 inch requirement. We would replace ourselves. And if it's not, if it's a 00:27:52
smaller culvert, then we would go back to the property owner, say you have to buy the culvert, we'll install it as if it were new, 00:27:58
OK. 00:28:03
If on other public roads. 00:28:10
That the county does not maintain the property owner would be responsible for all the work. They would not be. We would, they 00:28:14
might, they may apply for a right away permit, but they would, we would tell them that what they need is a greedy and Greenwich 00:28:22
permit to to, to do that work, assuring us that he's not causing harm to other folks downstream and or upstream. 00:28:29
With the installation of that so for non county maintained growth it's entirely in the owners expense and would require a grading 00:28:38
and drainage permit. 00:28:42
So the next slide is new residential driveway tie insurance and. 00:28:51
If this is not necessarily today addressed in the right of way ordinance, but it is addressed in the local design standards 00:28:58
manual, OK and the low wage design standard manual, it's a very technical manual that guides folks on what to do for new road 00:29:04
construction. 00:29:11
And it includes driveway targets. And so we would incorporate that into the right of way ordinance. A right away permit would be 00:29:18
required. We would make sure that they're complying with the standards manual. 00:29:26
All driveway costs are funded by the property owner. So they're putting in a driveway and part of that driveway is in our right of 00:29:37
way, but but it's their driveway and all cost belongs to that, to that property owner. And either the work, this is again 00:29:43
residential, either the work is performed by a registered insured contractor or the property owner provides proof of insurance. 00:29:50
Property owner wants to do it, show us proof of insurance because we're liable for that road, OK. 00:29:57
And by the way, I'm talking about county right aways in this first section, OK, in the bottom section, I'll be talking about 00:30:05
everything else. 00:30:09
For a road that we maintained, we would have these requirements. A site plan and traffic control would be required. It's it's our 00:30:14
Rd. We have liability for it. Grading and drainage permit may be required. We've seen evidence of or examples of where people put 00:30:20
in a covert or a driveway and it causes some problems upstream and we want to make sure that there are no drainage issues. It may 00:30:27
include a covert installation if it does. 00:30:34
As part of this residential driveway tie in, the county would install that that particular cover. 00:30:41
OK. So then if it's not a county right away, if it's not a road to be maintained and it's one of those public right of ways that 00:30:48
we do not maintain, it would require a breathing and drainage permit, OK. It wouldn't require a right away permit. It does not 00:30:56
require compliance. The way we're thinking is that this does not require compliance with roadway design standards manual. 00:31:04
You know, we could, we could pick the option and say why not? Why aren't we requiring that of this residential driveway? 00:31:13
And some counties do, Maricopa County, for instance, does. Most counties don't OK, if you're not, if, if we don't maintain that 00:31:23
road, we want to be as far away from any liability with that road as possible. However, there is there's two sides to that. One of 00:31:29
them is one of these days they may apply for that rule to be maintained by the county. And so if that's the case, why didn't we 00:31:35
require the things that we would normally require for our roads? 00:31:41
And based on board of supervisor input and our our legal team, the County Attorney and other consultant, we will we may change 00:31:49
that over time, but. 00:31:56
Today, the way this is written, we would just require grading a drainage permit and the grading and drainage permit would probably 00:32:03
require traffic control as part of that permitting process. All driveway driveway tie in costs are funded by the property owner of 00:32:10
course and including the design, material and installation. 00:32:16
Any questions? 00:32:24
I'm good, thank you. 00:32:29
Something just came to my mind on the road we were discussing at East Verde Estates, Kings King King Rd. Kings Rd. So it's very 00:32:31
problematic Rd. drainage issues, all of that. So if we were to the county were to take the attitude of OK well these are citizens 00:32:40
of the county that have trouble. This is a non maintained Rd. by the county. What can we do to help? 00:32:49
It would, would that be the attitude that we would have? You know, let me show you what we can do. 00:32:59
This is how we can accomplish a better end result. 00:33:06
Versus just coming to a black and white decision of we're not going to accept that road, we're not going to do this or that. Do we 00:33:11
have a means where we can assist? 00:33:17
There's 8 or 10 property owners there that are struggling with some real serious roadway problems. 00:33:24
That's a that's a complicated issue. We are planning a work session, hopefully end of January. 00:33:34
To talk about roads, abandoning roads, accepting roads I. 00:33:42
And today we have, because there have been some. 00:33:47
Folks interested in asking the county to maintain that role. We, we have developed a little, a little template that says here's 00:33:54
the things that you should be satisfying and here's how this role ranks against those items. There's two or three things that that 00:34:01
really in my mind stands out. One of them is the traffic count. 00:34:08
How does that road compare with all the other 750 miles of non maintained county roads? 00:34:16
And the other one is drainage. Drainage is a major issue and it's a forever issue, doesn't go away. It's not like where we can we 00:34:23
can add gravel to the road. Drainage waters got to go somewhere and you need to know where that water is going to go when we 00:34:28
accept the road. 00:34:32
And those two things always need to be at the top. I think of our minds as we move forward the, the, the January work session, 00:34:38
we'll start with, we've been receiving because you've heard this before, $9 million a year to maintain growth in 2007, something 00:34:44
like that. Forget that. And and that money has not increased over time and there's little expectation for us to expect that to 00:34:50
increase. And so if there is an upper limit to what we can maintain, then we we need to consider that in, in that formula of 00:34:56
making. 00:35:02
Official which votes to accept. Now, there may be roads that we shouldn't be maintaining and interesting, it's interesting that 00:35:08
the Forest Service has mentioned a couple of them to us and we're going to work with them and, and and with the board as to 00:35:14
whether or not we should continue to maintain those roads. But that's that's something that we should be looking at and that's all 00:35:20
part of a much longer discussion. 00:35:26
In a future work session to to talk about roads because I think we need to have that discussion again, that's been left very much 00:35:33
to our director of public works to make all those decisions and it changes with with with the director. 00:35:40
And we should have guidance on that, that we follow as we move forward. If the the only strict part about that is we can, we don't 00:35:47
maintain a road unless the board approves for us to maintain that road that that policy has always been followed. 00:35:54
I didn't answer your question, I don't think. But well, no, it's, it's not a very clear question. Obviously the So let's say 00:36:01
there's 8 owners on there. They all signed a petition. We want this fixed. And so as a particular owner, so let's say I own one 00:36:08
piece of that and say, well, I want to put some money toward this. It's a private kind of a private road. The county doesn't 00:36:15
accept it, but it's a paper road and so. 00:36:21
But no one else wants to put money toward it. So nothing ever happens. Nothing ever gets done because no one can all get together 00:36:28
at one time to do it so. 00:36:33
My concern from the position I have would be, well, how can we best serve the public in this way? And so that was my question. Is 00:36:39
there any means to help them facilitate a cooperation with each other to get that? That's a, that's a nasty Rd. I went up on it a 00:36:47
few days ago and it's bad and it's like a driveway. So King, Kings Rd. that's the name of the world, right? 00:36:56
We actually met with those folks. I think we met with them three times and one, one time with most of the folks that lived on the 00:37:06
road and the other times with just the individual person. 00:37:10
And, and we did coach him on what we expected for them to do with drainage, OK. And I was joined by, by by the road yard folks, by 00:37:15
the surveyors, by flood control in, in those visits. And we, we kind of have laid out for them what we think. 00:37:25
Should be done the ability of one owner to convince seven other people. That remains to be seen. I I'd be willing to host a 00:37:35
meeting with them with, with the group and, and try to guide the discussion a little bit. But it's, it's, it's a difficult thing. 00:37:42
They all need to agree and they all need to allow water to flow where it needs to flow. And, and sometimes we can't find that 00:37:48
ready solution. 00:37:55
Sometimes we can't fix that. 00:38:03
I've been to other places. I think it's Round Valley, where we have laid out what the requirements were to bring those roads in to 00:38:05
maintenance. Those are much different kind of roads in much better shape. They're actually maintained by the group right now. 00:38:12
And it has ample Eastman drainage. We we told them what we wanted for drainage and they're willing to do it. And they haven't come 00:38:21
back to the table because the whole community isn't in agreement to do that yet. Some people don't want the road to be maintained 00:38:26
by the county. 00:38:31
OK, and so they need to resolve that under all. 00:38:38
OK. Thank you. 00:38:43
Thank you. 00:38:46
Again, on this commercial property right away culverts that blue is meant to show things that we that are in the ordinance that we 00:38:48
can do today. And if you're a commercial property and you want a driveway, a culvert or a driveway tie in either or both on a 00:38:56
county right away on a road that we maintain, then you would need a right away permit. You'd have to comply with our manual. 00:39:04
You would need a grading. A grading and drainage permit may be required. 00:39:14
Work to be performed by a registered contractor and the corporate and driveway and the driveway tie in installation is funded by 00:39:17
that property owner. This is very much what we did with The Perrys, by the way, when The Perrys came to us and they said we want 00:39:25
this driveway, we asked them to do these things. We actually asked them to do a traffic study as well. 00:39:32
And they did that to show us that it was in the right place and would be a safe driveway. But so these would be. 00:39:41
In my mind they're already required. They should be the standard requirements for a commercial driveway tie in and a covert all 00:39:51
other right of ways that are not maintained by the county for commercial properties. It would revert back to a breathing and 00:39:56
drainage permit. Would not have to meet the manual. 00:40:02
And all costs are still with the property owners. 00:40:10
We're almost there. I think we're slide 15 out of 17. 00:40:18
And these last couple of slides are? 00:40:23
Are important. 00:40:29
So the current ordinance addresses breaches to a permit. The ordinance that we have today says if you got a permit, we can and you 00:40:31
don't comply, we can revoke that permit. 00:40:37
And if we revoke the permit and we have to do something on the road, we're going to bring those costs back to you. 00:40:43
You're gonna have to pay for reasonable cost for us to restore the road. 00:40:49
It does not address. 00:40:55
Working without a permit. It does not talk about working without a permit. 00:40:58
And it does not have a sense of urgency when dealing with a violation of a right of way permit. So the way I think of a right of 00:41:04
way permit, if, especially if it's one of our right of ways and we're liable for that road and somebody ***** a ditch right next 00:41:10
to the road. This is not like a complaint from somebody who says my neighbor hasn't cut his weeds. This is about that. At any 00:41:17
moment somebody can fall in that trench and the county gets through. 00:41:23
OK. And so that in my opinion there's there should be a sense of urgency about that. So what do we do? 00:41:31
Whether you get that, especially if you did that without a permit and we need to do something. So with that in mind. 00:41:37
There's two there's two things that can happen on a failure to obtain a right away permit. 00:41:47
The work is ongoing. You're doing the work just like we saw in that picture. We found out on a Friday that somebody's doing the 00:41:55
work. What do we do? Well, we use common sense. Steve Williams and I worked on that and Steve went out there and put some blinking 00:42:00
lights and. 00:42:05
And tape and other things. So just make sure that we at least offered the public some some notice that that trench was there OK. 00:42:11
And so in this particular case it we would issue a seasoned assist letter. The work is ongoing. We would issue a cease and desist 00:42:20
letter and we would require permit compliance in three days for them to come into the office and and and and and. 00:42:28
Comply with the permit that the right of way permit fee would double for for all requirements of of that right away permit. 00:42:37
If permit later on, if it's if work, whatever work has been done that we can't see, we would require pothole and we want to know 00:42:45
that it's something is very 3 foot deep and where it's located. OK, So potholing at the expense of the violator and road repairs 00:42:53
would have to be undertaken and they would not be completed or approved by the county. If it's a traffic hazard like that road 00:43:00
was, the county will take immediate, immediate action and charge back. There's no need. 00:43:08
About it, take immediate action, make the road safe and they're going to pay for it, for our time, for the traffic control 00:43:15
devices, whatever, whatever we use. If the permit compliance is not complete in three days, if they have not come in to do 00:43:22
something, then we'll take another look at the situation and take whatever necessary action we think is appropriate to make the 00:43:28
road safe for the long term. 00:43:35
Not just for the weekend. Then we would be looking at. We want to make this road safe for the long term. This person is not 00:43:42
responding. 00:43:45
And it's our, it's a public, it's a, it's a public road. And we want to make it safe. And we would charge them back for any work 00:43:49
that we do. 00:43:53
If the permit compliance is not obtained in seven days, then and it's a property owner, not a, not a utility, it's a property 00:43:58
owner. We would schedule a hearing with a hearing officer and we would give them five days notice and bring them in front of the 00:44:05
hearing officer, OK. If it's a utility company, we would schedule a board meeting to take action to terminate the franchise for 00:44:13
the license that may have been issued. And of course they would still be responsible for the cost that we incur. 00:44:20
For the restoration of the road. 00:44:28
We were filed with Superior Court to collect reimbursement for work performed by the county. And again we would be seeking County 00:44:32
Attorney, County Attorney does have an opinion on that and we need to blend that in with what we do. What do we do afterwards to 00:44:39
collect that money because the situation is different than we go cut somebody's weeds down. We put a lien on the property, but we 00:44:46
can't put a lien on a public right of way. It basically belongs to us. So we'd be putting a lien on ourselves. So if somebody. 00:44:54
In our public right of way, we need to figure out how do we go back and make sure that we get reimbursement because the lack of 00:45:01
getting reimbursement results in people working on right of ways on a weekend. 00:45:06
And we need to be meaningful in how we go about making sure that people know if they're going to violate the right of way 00:45:14
ordinance, they're they're surprised to pay. 00:45:19
And for the hearing officer, for the property owners, we would be changing right away ordinance to talk about the typical fee per 00:45:26
day and the typical fee per day that's used by the hearing officer is $700.00 a day. And I think you also find that in the state 00:45:33
statutes. So those are things that we were thinking about incorporating into the ordinance. 00:45:41
For failing to get a permit, OK. 00:45:50
Next slide is I wanted to talk a little bit about Rd. design. 00:45:57
So they have a mini Ave. meaningful discussion on on encroachments. We need to look at that that the Gila County Roadway Design 00:46:01
Standard manual does not have a design for a gravel Rd. 00:46:07
What you see here in the with the green font that is for a pav row and I went through that manual and I found the the road with 00:46:15
the least right of way with and it's a it's a low volume Rd. 00:46:22
That has traffic of 25 mph and the minimum right away width is 50 feet OK. 00:46:31
And what what I'm showing on this slide is a gravel Rd. that measures 40 foot wide. 00:46:40
And you see two vehicles, they're approximately sized in scale to this role the pickup trucks have nowadays. Some of them get 00:46:46
close to being 7 foot wide. So the ditch is 2 to one slope, 1 foot deep. It's a very shallow, small ditch. Basically there is an 00:46:55
area outside of the ditch for utilities placement. 00:47:03
And when you Add all these components up, it's 40 feet. There is no shoulder on this road, by the way. 00:47:12
It's just a travel way 11 feet normally there's some footage shoulder on most roles, so this would be a minimum #40 feet. If you 00:47:19
look at other counties like Navajo County or gravel, the smallest gravel right away with is 54 and 54 is pretty common. So it 00:47:27
allows for utilities to be placed outside of the ditch. Otherwise you're putting the water meter in the ditch if it's something 00:47:34
like 24 foot wide. So the next slide shows us a rope that's. 00:47:41
Would like and in this particular rule you can see that. 00:47:49
If you park, if you park just one vehicle, and if you even if you park it in the ditch, you're really obstructing flow. 00:47:55
Traffic flow for something as 24 foot wide and I just wanted to show that that visualization so that we can talk about obstruction 00:48:03
on public right of ways. 00:48:10
And the reason we want to talk about this is we do get numerous complaints about people parking on the roads. And what we do is we 00:48:18
struggle with that every time and try to each time we try to invent what do we do in this particular case? What have we done in 00:48:25
the past? And and we don't necessarily have a policy or a ordinance that directs us in what what we should be doing. And I am 00:48:32
looking for that prescriptive process because not having that is. 00:48:40
County attorney's time and we take up a lot of staff time to try to figure out what we do. And often times we end up doing, I'm 00:48:48
going to say nothing. We're not acting quick enough. And so I'm looking for how do we if we're going to say no and let's have the 00:48:55
no ready to go so that we can tell them no, we're not doing anything. And, and, and we didn't and we don't waste the energies and 00:49:03
the time. If the expectation is that we do something, then what is that something? OK. 00:49:10
And So what is that something is on this particular slide. If it's a county right away and the road belongs to the public and the 00:49:18
county maintains it and there's an obstruction, obstruction defined by meaning you can't travel on this hill something like the 00:49:25
gate or similar to a date and obstruction then we remove upon discovery other words, it's it's a road. We maintain the public 00:49:33
expect to travel on that road. You put something and you're not allowing traffic. 00:49:40
Through Rd. yard. Go remove that. 00:49:48
It should be that simple. OK, if it's an encroachment where you're impeding the flow of travel and you can't meet the speed and 00:49:51
you no longer can travel two way traffic at the allowable speed limit. Oftentimes when I think of that, I think of a minimum turns 00:50:00
of 20 feet. And by the way, this was brought up at one of your town hall meetings, Supervisor Christensen where the. 00:50:08
Fire departments get up and say we need 20 foot of width on a road to to to be able to respond. 00:50:17
So I'm using that as being a minimum clearance that's required. Anything less than that is an encroachment. OK, So we give them 15 00:50:23
days. If it's an encroachment and it still allows traffic at least one way, 15 day notice is given to the property owner or, or or 00:50:30
is placed on the encroachment. If we don't know who the property owner is and it's a trailer without a license plate, we put it on 00:50:38
the trailer. OK. And this, by the way, follows the state statue. 00:50:45
In in the section on transportation that has to do with state highways, but also allows. 00:50:53
The subdivisions of the state, like the county to utilize this, the encroachment would be removed and a person responsible. After 00:50:58
the 15 days, the enforcement would be removed and the person responsible for the enforcement would pay for that cost. 00:51:04
Now, if it's some equipment that doesn't, we can't identify the owner, we may be picking it up and never get paid for it. OK. But 00:51:11
if it's a, it's a licensed vehicle or a vehicle that, that's sitting there, we, we may or may not get paid for, but so we, we say, 00:51:19
well, are we worried about people paying for us eventually? Or are we worried about making this rope passable? And, and, and so we 00:51:26
need to, we need to answer that question as we move forward and we will file with Superior Court to collect. 00:51:33
And again, County Attorney would like for us to find a different way than to that to go through Superior Court. And I put that 00:51:41
down because it was in the state statue allowing subdivisions of the state to behave like this. But this is still subject to legal 00:51:47
review. And again, we're going to take the input from the board, finish writing that ordinance and and get it into the County 00:51:53
Attorney for their review. 00:51:59
So that's where county right of ways, other public roaches and obstruction or encroachment. 00:52:06
We can do the same thing that we have up here, or we can simply tell them, hey, that's an issue that you need to take up. 00:52:12
The property, whoever has that property, we don't maintain that role. 00:52:18
And again, we've used that in the past for the county. I think the sheriff may have used that. If it's not a county maintained Rd. 00:52:23
we can't do anything. 00:52:27
And, and if that's, and if that's our position, I would be, I'm OK with the positions that we take, but I just want them to be in 00:52:33
writing. And again, it's because I don't, I don't want to treat one person one way because I'm the director today, another 00:52:39
director comes in tomorrow. We treat another person differently. There should be guidance on what do we do for roads that are not 00:52:44
maintained by the county. 00:52:49
And somebody parks on it. So then the last item is I want to talk about no parking. 00:52:55
We could. The board could decide it's OK for us to include it in the ordinance or to have a separate resolution that says no 00:53:05
overnight parking on any public roads that have widths of 20 feet or less. 00:53:10
You park there, you're obstructing that first responder. 00:53:16
So park, park on your property, OK, That's an option. The other one is, and I'm referring to the road on on Pine that I showed you 00:53:20
the picture. I think it's Allison Rd. the community members and you saw the cars parked on both sides. It's 35 foot wide. It's a 00:53:28
public Rd. There's no reason why traffic should be obstructed. Community members may come to the board and request no parking on a 00:53:35
specific Rd. segment, OK. 00:53:43
And it would require a number of property owners to petition. The board could be something like 50% for property owners that are 00:53:51
abutting on the road. It would require a public meeting and a report from the county engineer. And then based on that, the board 00:53:57
could take action. Let's say we're going to post at no parking and a resolution that gives the sheriff the authority to haul those 00:54:04
vehicles away based on that designation. 00:54:10
And and those are some ideas that we think are worth for us to consider. 00:54:18
And that's it for my flight. I'm ready to get to have whatever discussion we need to have at this time. 00:54:22
OK. First of all, I would like to thank you very much and all the staff and departments that have put time and energy into your 00:54:33
presentation today because the amount of time and hours and and thought and communication. 00:54:41
Between the departments, from engineering to the road department, to all the people that work on this, you know, putting this 00:54:49
together to even bring to us, I appreciate the effort because we do have issues. And up until now, it's like everybody just shrugs 00:54:57
their shoulder, looks at engineering, shrugs your shoulder, looks at the road department, shrugs your shoulder, call the so say, 00:55:04
hey, is there anything we can do? And so, you know, putting time, energy and effort. 00:55:12
And to this, I think is it a can of worms? Yes, it is. But is it one that's never been looked at that you are taking bringing to 00:55:19
us with the opportunity to look at it? I appreciate it very much. 00:55:26
And so, you know, talking about code enforcement, I, I, I think that's great, you know, because we started it for, for blight and 00:55:34
I appreciate staff working very hard. You know, when I first came on board for blight, our hearing officer and our code 00:55:41
enforcement officer were both paid county employees. So if we put a penalty on somebody, we couldn't do anything about it. And so 00:55:48
then it, you know, then. 00:55:55
Planning and zoning is using it for, you know, health like raw sewage and building without a permit. And so it's great to see that 00:56:03
perhaps maybe you, the road department and these right aways and some things can also get some use out of the code enforcement and 00:56:11
the fact that we can write people citations and turn them over to a collection agency. 00:56:20
To, to be able to write some of these wrongs instead of just shrug your shoulders. Because if, if, if there's not any penalties 00:56:29
and I and, and I don't mean everybody needs to be penalized in the. 00:56:34
Different cases, but, but if you, if you tell somebody they got to move their car or else and there's nowhere else, then they're 00:56:40
going to park four more cars there and and give you the peace sign because there's nothing we can do so. 00:56:47
I think it's great that you're opening this and giving us the opportunity to move forward on a lot of these. And, and you know, 00:56:56
like you say, you put a lot of time, energy and effort and, and I'm behind you 100% and how you deal with it. Like no overnight 00:57:02
parking, okay. You know, I mean, that's, that could be something or just an hour, you know, on a 20 foot Rd. you can only park 00:57:09
there for six hours. 00:57:15
Because you know what if they work at night, so they park there. 00:57:23
All day they're still obstructing our emergency vehicles, but if they're there for a birthday party, you know, we're not 00:57:27
penalizing. They can, they can be there for six hours, so. 00:57:32
And and working on, you know, trying to work with some of these people on on so-called paper roads. 00:57:38
We've got a lot of issues with that because there was an ordinance in the beginning and like Quail Ridge in, in my area, we've got 00:57:46
a utility going up that so-called Rd. that's exposed because nothing, no maintenance is being done on that. 00:57:54
Because everybody owns a piece of the road and they're all fighting and it ends up in lawsuits. And, and I, I even quit wondering 00:58:04
what lawsuits going on now. I used to try to fix it. And it's like some of these lawsuits have got to get over with before we can 00:58:10
come to any agreement. And you know, the county had. 00:58:16
Worked with the utility company to work with them and they were going to furnish the material and we're going to do the labor to 00:58:24
kind of surface this and get some utilities covered. Well, you know, then with the people in lawsuits there, we, we never could 00:58:31
obtain all the easements, which is a, you know, a difficult deal. So on deals like that, if the property owners have a have agreed 00:58:38
at some point in time to have a road on their property. 00:58:45
Through legal is there any, is there any teeth in in that We could, you know, like a supervisor Christian has the issue where 00:58:54
we're not everybody could agree well if they agreed to have a road, is there not something legal that hey, you know, if if you own 00:59:01
half of that road, well then 10 feet of it you have already said it can be a road. So you can't just say no, I don't want anything 00:59:08
done there because you you know so as we look into this further, is there legally something. 00:59:16
That there's a road there and and somebody gave permission for easement for that road to be there. So is there some legal way that 00:59:23
we could make them liable for their original agreement to allow their neighbors to get to their property and now they're saying 00:59:30
no, but anyway. 00:59:37
I, I thank you very much. I, I agree with a lot of it. And like I said, I didn't disagree with any of it. And I appreciate you 00:59:45
looking at it and, and putting that time and energy and effort because you, you were the, you know, the departments that have put 00:59:50
time and energy in this. 00:59:56
Are the ones that deal with this every day on on where people are working and how they're working and not obtaining permits and 01:00:02
so. 01:00:07
I'm I'm very much in favor of expanding our code enforcement, even if we have to expand our expense of a second code enforcement 01:00:13
officer to handle some of the things that we need to deal with and heal account so. 01:00:22
Thank you very much. Thank you, Supervisor Christian, I think I'm finished. Thank you. 01:00:33
Romero, I'll extend my thanks to you as well and the staff involved with this. 01:00:42
What my impression is that there's just a few changes to the existing ordinance, and I would agree with all of the suggested 01:00:49
changes and additions. I do believe that we should have in place on your page #6 about those that do not have a franchise to give 01:00:58
them. It's kind of a one off thing. They need to do some digging. They need to put something in. 01:01:07
They don't need to wait four months to do that to get through process. 01:01:17
So I mean, if they're going to want to be there for years to come, then they need to have a franchise. But. 01:01:23
They just need to do one thing. It's OK. Umm. 01:01:28
My first impression on this photo you have of Ellison Drive and quite a number of the roads you're Speaking of do exist in the 01:01:33
Pine and Strawberry Control Rd. area. These are older communities developed back in the 50s or so, and there's been sort of this. 01:01:44
Understood, Norm that we're going to park here, we're going to store something here. We're going to and the photo you show here, 01:01:57
there's it's more than parking, it's storage. There's people putting their trailers there and if they're turning it into their 01:02:02
property. 01:02:07
So they're not going to be happy to be told to move that. However, it is a public safety concern. If a fire truck can't get down 01:02:15
that road or turn back around or do anything, it is not their property. 01:02:22
So we need to do and I realize this is a transition, but it's time I think for Healer County and these areas to. 01:02:30
To grow up, in a sense, we are maturing as a county and this is not 60 years ago when you could do just whatever you wanted and no 01:02:42
one really cared or noticed. Now we have much more congestion and public safety and easement and utilities. They need to be able 01:02:51
to move and get into these places. So I agree with the changes you're making. 01:02:59
I realize there's probably going to be a challenge to enforce. 01:03:07
However, we do need to have the. 01:03:13
We need to have it in place. We need to make these appropriate changes. I agree with that and I do thank you for that. 01:03:16
Thank you. 01:03:23
So is that the end of your presentation? 01:03:25
We're done. OK, thank you for your input. Any more comments on that one? 01:03:29
OK. All right. Thank you, Romero. And as time goes on, if you do have comments, make sure you. 01:03:35
Sure. OK. Thank you. All right, so we'll move on then to Item 2B. And this is information discussion regarding proposed changes to 01:03:41
the Healer County Minor Land Division ordinance. Good morning, Randy. Morning, supervisors. By the way, I have 5 flights, so I met 01:03:49
Homer's requirements. Clearly, you get the Gold Star. 01:03:57
So by the way, it's the same staff that they talked about Scott and Sam and and Alex and Homer and me and stuff and working on 01:04:06
this too. So I want to give staff some kudos too. 01:04:13
So the ordinance that we're talking about was adopted in 1989. It was last changed, had a minor change in 2006. 01:04:21
So there's a state statue that goes along with minor land divisions that is 11831. Minor land divisions are land that are split 01:04:32
into 5 parcels or fewer and are less than 10 acres. 01:04:39
We have a lot of people that split and then re split and then re split and then re split. 01:04:49
You're only allowed to do it 5 splits, then you sell it, and then if someone else splits it and there's enough land there, they 01:04:56
can do that. But you're not supposed to be doing that in any way to try to get around the subdivision requirements, which is over 01:05:03
5 lots. And again, we have nothing to do with that. That is all through the Department of Real Estate. 01:05:11
We have no control or no say over that, so I just wanted to bring that up. 01:05:19
We also, it says the state statute the county may not deny approval of any land division that meets the requirements of this 01:05:25
section. So this is not up to us to just say we don't like it, we can't do with it if they meet the requirements we are not 01:05:30
allowed to deny. 01:05:36
And those requirements are partial meets minimum aptical zoning requirements. Now the question is, does that apply to Young? And 01:05:43
Young would not be denied because they don't meet zoning ordinance because there are no zoning ordinances there. Well, there are 01:05:51
some, but overall Young does not have zoning. So this would not be denied for not meeting the zoning. 01:05:59
The applicants provide a preliminary title report or acceptable document that demonstrates legal access to parcels. 01:06:09
Appkin provides a statement from a licensed surveyor or engineer or other evidence acceptable to the county that each partial has 01:06:18
a physical access that is transversible by a 2 wheel drive passenger vehicle. If you will get into this a little bit, but 01:06:24
basically. 01:06:31
The Fiscal Asset access is statement on the survey that says you can get there by a car. 01:06:38
The legal, I mean, sorry, yeah, that's not legal address or access is we're wanting to make a change that it requires a 24 foot 01:06:46
Rd. and Homer just went through that and explained why we would want that. 01:06:52
The applicant reserves reserves the necessary and appropriate utility easements to serve each parcel created by a minor land 01:07:01
division. 01:07:05
It's an absolute acknowledges that it is unlawful to attempt to avoid the subdivision laws by acting in concert to divide parcels 01:07:11
of land into six or more parcels. 01:07:16
So currently we're doing most of the stuff, some of the stuff that's in our ordinance we have not enforced. We have a couple of 01:07:26
things we want to add to help enforce this as we move forward. 01:07:33
So a record of survey for a minor land division drawn by a lands surveyor, meaning all Arizona Boundary Service survey minimum 01:07:40
requirements and showing existing proposed boundaries access utility easements. What currently happens now is when a surveyor 01:07:49
draws up a minor land division, they submit that to Scott, Warren or Sam and they do the math and they make sure those lines. 01:07:58
Closed and meet the requirements. 01:08:08
Once Scott does that, he also looks over the overall form of it. He shifts it to me and I review and make sure it's cleaning, 01:08:11
zoning, We have access, we have all the stuff required. Nothing's too close to the property lines, nothing's going over the 01:08:16
property lines and so on. 01:08:22
Name and address is Vol Properties, our parties of interest to the Land Division. 01:08:29
Deception of access Our description of access to the parcel proposed to be divided and manner access is granted within the 01:08:37
statement from the register for Surveyor stating whether each parcel has fiscal address and that is transferable by A2 wheeled 01:08:43
vehicle. 01:08:49
Current zoning of the parcels and areas and dimension of all the parcels, that's what we're doing now. 01:08:58
Now the state statute addresses. 01:09:05
Some of the. 01:09:11
Lot line adjustments, but we don't in our ordinance. Our ordinance was dealing with minor land divisions and not lot line 01:09:14
adjustments. So we're going to add lot line adjustments in there because that's a pretty common thing that happens a lot here is 01:09:22
people and subtract and it usually takes two or more parcels to do a minor to do a lot line adjustment. 01:09:29
The same thing while I adjustment has to be drawn by a surveyor meeting all the Arizona boundary minimum standard and showing 01:09:38
existing imposed boundaries of the access as required name and address for both parties of interest to the lot line adjustment, 01:09:45
current zoning the parcels and areas of dimension for all parcels. 01:09:52
The next page which is our. 01:10:02
This kind of highlights everything. I will tell you that if you look at number two there, we wrote write existing improvement 01:10:06
structures. We currently have some of that in our ordinance, but it hasn't always been enforced. The one thing I want to make sure 01:10:14
we talk about is showing the setbacks if you look at the end of the second line there. 01:10:22
What happens is they'll show me a structure on the building, but won't tell me how far it is. 01:10:30
So for zoning, you have to have minimum step back if you ask 20 feet from the front and the rear and seven and seven from the side 01:10:36
or 7:00 and 9:00. So we're just getting to clarify that. 01:10:42
So there's no misunderstanding that also helps the people buying the property. 01:10:49
They know what they're getting into. If they see something that doesn't meet the zoning requirements, they can deal with that. 01:10:55
One of the things that third line there that we're wanting to start having the surveyors put on the survey is the FEMA flood 01:11:04
zones. 01:11:09
Um, as you know, that's a big target that's, that's changing and, and people are buying parcels and don't know that they're in the 01:11:15
flood. They don't even know how to look that they're in the flood. They don't know that they can go to FEMA and pull up their 01:11:22
parcel and or would turn a minor land division. They don't even have a partial number yet, so they can't see if it's going through 01:11:30
there. So as part of the process that we're wanting to make the changes to. 01:11:37
As we want to show FEMA on there, one of the things we've talked about are in staff has talked about it in the moving forward is 01:11:44
wanting to add the topos on to. 01:11:53
Minor land divisions and lot line adjustments, but state statue says we cannot require them to do a independent. 01:12:02
Study of that, but currently the county is looking at doing that across the county and when that comes into play, we want to come 01:12:11
back to you and, and we would provide that information to them to the surveyors, but they would put it on the minor land division. 01:12:18
And one of the reasons that we came up with is make sure they have a building envelope right? That they they bought this this 01:12:24
parcel and it may not have the proper. 01:12:31
Building envelope because it's in the flood. 01:12:38
Or that's on the slopes. You know, there's a lot of things that can come into play and we want to address that. 01:12:41
It there will be an added expense here, the surveyors, I'm I'm sure going to charge a little bit more to put this information on 01:12:47
there. But again, this is helping the person buying the parcel and it's helping the person selling it that they don't come into 01:12:53
liability either that hey, you sold the parcel. It doesn't even have a building envelope on there for a structure to go on. So 01:12:59
we're looking at that. 01:13:05
We have there's an acknowledgment, so if they don't meet these requirements that we've talked about, they can still record their 01:13:16
easement. They have put acknowledgement on there that this parcel will not get a building permit or youth permit and moving 01:13:23
forward until it comes into compliance. So we're not stopping them from recording it. We're not getting in their way that they 01:13:31
think sometimes, but they have to put that statement on there and then the recorders will. 01:13:38
And it'll be there. And that way anyone coming and purchasing that property will see that there's no building permits or use 01:13:46
permits that's going to be issued until they bring that into compliance and show all those requirements, those five requirements 01:13:51
that were on there to get approved. 01:13:56
If you'll notice up there on the upper right hand corner, I didn't mention the reason we have the lot LA highlighted in red is 01:14:04
because our current ordinance doesn't address this. We do it, we have been doing it, but we're adding that into the ordinance 01:14:10
here. So I just wanted to clarify that. 01:14:16
Lot line adjustments are approved once we end minor land divisions once we get all the information we need. Currently we have 30 01:14:25
days I state statue and by our ordinance that from when the time the surveyors get it to us we have 30 days to. 01:14:34
View all that information and either send it back to them. Like if Scott saw that the math wasn't right, he would send it back to 01:14:45
the surveyors. They would address that, resubmit to us. 01:14:51
I then look at this, I said at the zoning and I will tell you we have even taken our staff once it comes to us and I approve it, 01:14:58
we've sent a notice to the surveyor, bring your Mylar in. I signed the Mylar staff even takes that back down to the recorder to 01:15:07
get recorded for the surveyors. So I mean we're, we're doing everything we can to help this process. 01:15:15
And as you know, especially Supervisor Humphrey. 01:15:24
Is is splitting daily? 01:15:28
And there have been complaints. 01:15:33
About some of that, again we have no say over that. That is Department of Realty. But the stuff that does come to us, we want to 01:15:37
make sure is is correct and as as as properly documented as possible. 01:15:44
One of the good things that we're doing is at the bottom there is you'll see recorder survey. So this is basically you own the 01:15:53
piece of property, you've had a piece of property and you just want to verify where your boundaries are. So you you paying, you 01:16:00
have a record survey done. Currently they submit that to Scott again, he does that math. Then it comes to me and I still look for 01:16:06
all the same stuff, but that's not a requirement. So we're taking that. 01:16:13
Record of survey by itself not a minor land and not a lot of line adjustment. Just a record survey. 01:16:21
Find the foundry that they don't have to go through us anymore. They can just take that down to a recorder and record it. 01:16:26
That way it just opens it up to them. They're not weighing in because I will tell you as it comes to me, I look for my, you know, 01:16:34
buildings and if I have a building going across a lot line record a survey. I'm not going to sign that. And in in words of the 01:16:41
county is saying I'm giving away someone else's property. So now I will agree that a record survey is just showing the boundaries. 01:16:47
The surveyors not doing anything special. It's just showing. 01:16:54
The boundaries for that parcel, but we still don't want to be signing it as the county approving that when it there may be some 01:17:02
issues there. 01:17:05
Um. 01:17:10
The Scott would still do courtesy reviews if they wanted on the on the Roses or any of those things. Cut and Public Works has been 01:17:15
very gracious and doing courtesy reviews for them to see if they can. 01:17:23
Address any of the issues that someone might have missed. That also makes it better for the county. We get a better map or a 01:17:33
better survey in our system and it's it's pretty. 01:17:39
Good thing overall. So the surveyors get a second set of eyes on it and the county gets better surveys. 01:17:49
Next slide. 01:17:57
One of the things on the bottom there is because we don't currently have a fee for landline adjustments because it's not in our 01:18:00
our ordinance. We wanted to add that fee for the work that gets done, but none of the minor land divisions fees would be changing. 01:18:06
This would only be for the lot line. 01:18:12
And with that, I'm open for any questions. I went through that pretty quick, but I. 01:18:19
The ordinance is fairly old and we're just trying to update it just to hear to what the counties growing pains are that we have. 01:18:26
Thank you, Randy. Supervisor Humphrey. 01:18:38
Yeah, again, again, thank you, Randy, because. 01:18:41
You know, I've said the whole time, we're only as good as our ordinances. Some of our ordinances were written. 01:18:46
A long time ago and they just don't fit in the world we live in today. And as painstaking as it is to change ordinances, I 01:18:51
appreciate staff willing to work on changing ordinances so that everybody understands what we're doing and, and one department's 01:18:59
not questioning another or they get an answer from somebody which changes if they ask another department. So, so by having these 01:19:06
ordinances for everybody to read, I think it's a great thing. 01:19:14
Because with our state growing as it is, Hilah County is going to grow. And, and I think trying to get ahead of some of the curb 01:19:22
to help protect people from investors and from themselves and, and what they think they want to do with the property they just 01:19:28
bought, that the people they bought from knew they couldn't do anything and that's why they gave them a good deal on the property. 01:19:34
So. 01:19:41
Again, I I think all the staff very much for the I can attitude. 01:19:48
And, and let, and let's try to help instead of say, well, there's nothing we can do because we're just following our ordinances 01:19:54
even though we have old ones. And, and yeah, we are growing up north and now in Tano and, and I've, you know, hope sometime in the 01:20:01
future we can get some growth growing around here. So. 01:20:07
Just thank you for for again, time, energy and effort and trying to make our complaint list go down because our ordinances read 01:20:15
our ordinances and don't call us because somebody said something and somebody said something else. It's like, you know, and, and 01:20:22
having information on property surveys I think is important because there have been people that call me in and they didn't know 01:20:29
when they bought it so. 01:20:35
Darn the Realtors and darn the investors, but, but. 01:20:43
We're trying, we're trying to help. And I, I thank you very much. Thank you, thank you and thanks Randy for putting this together. 01:20:47
I don't disagree with any of the changes you make and really, and we do need to work on that. Help me to understand, obviously if 01:20:56
there's a minor land division, there must be something called a major land division. So why are we limited to five on a minor land 01:21:04
division, 10 acres or less, 5 parcels. Why can't we do 20? You are not limited. You can do 20. You just become a subdivision. 01:21:13
It just requires a different set of rules. 01:21:23
A different so these people that are. 01:21:25
Maybe their friends or whatever, but they're buying a property, they divide it and they sell it and then that person divides it. 01:21:30
They could forego all of that if they went to a subdivision dynamic. Is it more expensive to do that? There's more steps and then 01:21:38
you're going to have to deal with roads, utilities, you know, there's a lot of that would require water. 01:21:47
And you have to have the 100 year water supply for subdivisions. So there's a lot more to it to do subdivisions. But again, this 01:21:56
the state statue and it's very clear that you can't sell it to your buddy to try to get around the requirements of the 01:22:05
subdivision. But we have no authority in in doing that. And I, I. 01:22:13
At the direction of our County Attorney, I filed complaints. 01:22:22
When people come and say, hey, this is becoming a subdivision out here and I would agree with them, but again, I can only file the 01:22:27
same complaint as anyone else can. If anyone ever thinks there's a subdivision going in, they all can file the same paperwork that 01:22:34
I do that goes to department Realty and they may or may not investigate. I'm sure they're busy too, but. 01:22:42
It does not limit them, it just limits them for the minor land division. 01:22:51
Sure. And that's a suspicion that may occur that we're not going to chase that one down. But let's say you have then a major 01:22:55
section of land, I have 100 acres. Now what? What is the process there to divide that? So again, it depends on how you want to 01:23:03
divide it. You could divide it into 520 acre parcels and then sell your 20 acre parcels to whoever or go to the subdivision or 01:23:10
make a subdivision and put a couple 100 houses out there. OK, good. 01:23:17
Last thing, I do believe we need to be charging for any services that we provide. So to do the $200 lot line adjustment, I think 01:23:25
makes sense that we charge for that. Does it cost us more time and energy to do 2 parcels, 3 parcels, 4 parcels, 5 parcels? Is 01:23:32
there a difference there? There is difference because each one, each parcel has to verify that they have fiscal and legal access, 01:23:39
the zoning requirements. 01:23:46
That go along there. 01:23:54
Any of the utilities that come across there, you know when you have 5 parcels and you're putting them in, a lot of times you have 01:23:56
a well and then they want to run water line across all those. So then we have to go back and check easements and everything on 01:24:02
each parcel and have to record them individually. 01:24:08
So it does take more time when there are multiple um. 01:24:16
Parcels. 01:24:20
We've discussed in the past where. 01:24:23
You're concerned from time to time to make sure that we're charging enough. 01:24:28
So that we can operate the department without the. 01:24:33
Huge deficit. So I guess the reason I ask that is could we not just charge 650 for any land divisions period? 01:24:37
Whether it's 2345 discharge the same fee or would that be something we end up with? 01:24:49
Profiting or doing something? 01:24:57
Like that it's only $150.00 difference and to me it seems like if you're gonna divide your land, one fee would be enough. 01:25:00
That is that is certainly up and we can bring that back when we bring the ordinance back that we would look at that and we can 01:25:09
track the numbers down to make sure that we're not profiting office that we're just covering our cost. I mean, obviously that 01:25:16
would be easier for staff to and and even the land owners that they just, you know, write one check and be done with it and 01:25:22
they've done their. 01:25:28
Their things. So yes, I certainly can look at that. I, I don't have the actual numbers that I could tell you right now that 01:25:35
exactly what they are, but we could look at that. 01:25:39
The reason I ask is because you say we're not changing these fees and this is an ordinance that's aging. And as it's aging, then 01:25:43
that means we're getting more and more behind the number the the, the amount that we need to charge perhaps. And we're running 01:25:50
into that with the landfill, we're running into that with other departments and so. 01:25:56
Anyway, I think we have another participant just to chime in on your permit fees. Mr. Chair, Supervisor Humphrey, Randy, with your 01:26:04
permission, we will have a contract coming to the board next month for the company that will be analyzing all of our fees county 01:26:11
wide and coming back to you with recommendations about what those ought to be based on real costs and future cost expectations. 01:26:18
It's helpful to know that. Thank you so much, Baron. 01:26:25
OK. So I don't have any other questions. Any more comments on what we've done on this item? 01:26:33
OK. I, I don't have, I, I have one more question, Mr. Chair, if I may, and I don't want you to answer it, but it's a question that 01:26:39
I'm sure if we have people on on that, I'm going to get asked. Why does Young not have zoning requirements? I'm not going to ask 01:26:46
you to answer that today. Supervisor client is out, but I'm sure with us talking about growing and minor land divisions and things 01:26:53
of that nature. 01:27:01
That is the question that I'm going to be asked. 01:27:08
But I don't want you to answer it. Thank you. 01:27:12
Yeah, it's an interesting area of the county. 01:27:18
For sure. OK. Thank you, Andy. Thank you for that. 01:27:22
OK. Do we have enough time left Joseph for you today? 01:27:26
We don't want to be late for lunch. It's but. 01:27:31
Let's let's move on to Item 2C and that would be information discussion regarding the past, present and future of the Michelson 01:27:35
Building. Good morning, Joseph. 01:27:39
In the past month, we have strengthened the IGA with the City of Globe and other collaborating with other stakeholders. We would 01:27:46
have would like to regroup and outline a path forward to achieve this. We would like to take a look at the past, where we're at 01:27:52
and where we're moving forward. 01:27:58
I'll try and keep it as quick as I can. 01:28:05
Thank you. 01:28:10
That's when the heart of Globe, AZ, the Michaelson Building at 157 S Broad St. stands as a beacon of history and transformation. 01:28:12
Built in 1929 by the renowned James P Michaelson, who also designed the iconic Masonic Hall, the 7980 square foot building was 01:28:19
initially a grocery store. 01:28:27
With an open air market housed that housed Safeway over the years, it passed through multiple hands from George and Margaret Leach 01:28:36
in 1959. By 1991, Hill Accounting acquired the property for $150,000 and in 1994 it was transformed into Child Support and County 01:28:43
Attorney Investigators office, solidifying its role. 01:28:51
In serving the community. 01:29:01
Hill County's acquisition marked the beginning of a new chapter for the Michaelson Building. Its pivotal role in hosting critical 01:29:04
county services like child support and legal offices showcase the adaptability and value of the historic structure. However, in 01:29:10
2015, as departments moved to the Courthouse Guerrero Building, the Michelson Building stood vacant, awaiting its next opportunity 01:29:16
to serve the people of Globe and Hillock County. 01:29:21
The transformation of the Michelson Building is a true partnership between Healer County and the City of Globe, demonstrating the 01:29:28
power of collaboration to revitalize historic infrastructure. Hill Accounting, as the builders owner have invested over 300,000 in 01:29:36
renovation efforts to date, underscoring its commitment to preserving the future the structure and preparing its future use. 01:29:43
Simultaneously, the City of Globe has been instrumental in securing grants and driving the vision for the building future. 01:29:50
In 2018, City of Globes Linda Netto spearheaded the project, collaborating with Matt Glover of Co Host. 01:29:58
Whose urban renewal efforts in Mesa served as inspiration. This partnership sparked the idea of the transformation of the 01:30:06
Michelson building into a business incubator and shared workspace, setting the stage for an innovative and growth and globes 01:30:12
downtown. 01:30:17
Together, Hill County and City of Globe have successfully secured significant funding, including a $650,000 Build Back Better 01:30:23
Initiative grant, USDA Rural Economic Development Initiative. 01:30:29
Fund the support from Freeport, Macaron, Resolution Copper, as we have mentioned in the past have been great partners. These 01:30:35
combined efforts reflect a balance of collaboration, collaborative approach to revitalization, revitalizing the Michaelson 01:30:42
building for the benefit of the entire community. 01:30:49
The renovation of the Michaelson building is progressing steadily, first starting off with the roof replacement as you can see 01:30:59
here in the slides. 01:31:03
Early abatement efforts addressed significant hazards including the removal of lead based paint and asbestos, ensuring compliance 01:31:12
with contemporary safety standards. Looking ahead, the next phase will focus on mold abatement and the demolition of non essential 01:31:18
interior infrastructure. 01:31:24
Which will pave the way for the buildings transformation into a vibrant business incubator. 01:31:32
These projects are fully contracted and set to commence in December. And fishing. 01:31:37
In early February, marking a crucial step in the renovation timeline. With these efforts, alongside the 2023 roof replacement and 01:31:43
the ongoing structural upgrades, the Michelson building is on track to become a city functional and inspiring cornerstone of 01:31:49
Gloves downtown revitalization. 01:31:54
On the slide here, we cut through. 01:32:09
And outline some of the. 01:32:14
Critical infrastructure was supporting the. 01:32:18
The facility, most of the building or most of the buildings walls on the interior are non load bearing so that is a large portion 01:32:21
of what will be removed. 01:32:25
The transformation of the Max building is about more than bricks and mortar. It's a revitalization of gloves to start downtown, a 01:32:35
spark for economic development. 01:32:39
The path forward as we look into the future for the Michelson Building relies on a strong partnership between the City of Globe 01:32:46
and Hill County Facilities teams. Together, we are working to develop a clear and actionable plan for a design build project. 01:32:53
That will bring the shared vision for the historic structure to life. While the City of Globe will serve as the primary entity 01:33:02
responsible for funding and contracting the project, the Hill Accounting Facilities team will continue to play a critical role as 01:33:07
advisors and oversee the construction management process. 01:33:12
Our expertise will ensure that the project executed effectively, maintaining both the historic integrity of the building and the 01:33:18
functionality as a modern business hub. 01:33:22
With that, I'd be happy to take. 01:33:29
Any questions? Thank you, Joseph. Supervisor Humphrey. Yeah, I don't have many questions, Joseph, because I've asked them as we've 01:33:32
gone along with this building. It's something that and we had a presentation just here a while back with the with the investors in 01:33:38
the building and I appreciate. 01:33:44
All of the people that are willing and kind of revitalizing the the downtown area and, and not only that, it's great to have a 01:33:52
working relationship with the city of Globin and and Freeport to be able to all work together. 01:33:59
On a building that that we all can use or, or like you say for young entrepreneurs for helping them have office space and things 01:34:06
as they want to get started. So I, I, I, it, it. It's too bad that it got in the shape that it did. 01:34:15
Before we started. 01:34:25
Partnering up and getting it fixed, but it it, it will be a great project when we when we get it finished. And like I say, to help 01:34:28
build the relationships with with our other partners in it. 01:34:35
Sure. Thank you for your for your update today and some of the history I I didn't realize some of the history of it, although I 01:34:41
know I know about 5055 years of it. But thank you. 01:34:48
Thank you, supervisor. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Joseph, for you and everyone involved. So. 01:34:56
This is one of those things where you either fix it or tear it down. It's it's a building that's aging and justice needs a lot of 01:35:05
care. And so as we go through that care, I see here on one of your pagers a partnership that the city of Globe is contributing. 01:35:14
A lot 1.4. 01:35:24
And a half million, is that what I'm reading right there? And so will that be enough to complete the planned project with all of 01:35:27
the offices and bathrooms and everything that you have planned for it? With that, Sir, we're highly confident in that estimate. 01:35:33
With that being said, there's still a lot of work that needs to happen, such as the design. And when we go through that design, 01:35:39
we're really going to have a better understanding. 01:35:45
Of what that scope is, I see the concepts here you have a page on concepts. 01:35:52
And pretty extensive. Looks really good so. 01:35:59
I like the front. 01:36:03
Looks modern and vibrant. 01:36:05
I think it's a great thing that we're saving the building and I'm going to put it to good use so. 01:36:09
Yes, Sir. Thank you, Joseph. Thank you, Mr. Chair. One more whom is going to. 01:36:14
Do the design and what what I mean, what it I I can see kind of the breakdown design and so you said do the design on A1 picture. 01:36:22
It looks like it's already been pretty much done. Is that done just a hand drawing to kind of give. 01:36:31
Something of what it might be and and it's not any part of an actual design supervisor. Humphrey, that's a great question. Yes, on 01:36:42
your last point, it's just a concept to give inspiration of what it could look like. 01:36:48
OK. But but going forward with an engineering company, I would guess on who's going to do the design, this is kind of what you're 01:36:55
going to give them for what all the partners would like to see out of the building. I this is when we do give it to him, it'll be 01:37:02
just as a concept. 01:37:08
After we get input from stakeholders, that's what's really going to determine the layout and what it's going to look like. 01:37:16
OK. And when, when do you think the stakeholders are going to get together to kind of give engine engineering it it seems to me 01:37:23
working with engineers in the past, if you give them an open sheet, then gosh, she only knows what you're going to end up with, 01:37:30
you know, bronze statues in the middle of the hall or some darn thing. So anyway, I guess going forward when, when are the 01:37:36
stakeholders going to get together to kind of give some perimeters? 01:37:42
Of a of a design company. We'll be working with the team to look at establishing that, Sir. 01:37:49
OK. In the next six months, next year and a half, it'll it'll be in the next two to three months. It's good. Thank you. No 01:37:57
problem. 01:38:02
Great. Well, I don't know that I have any more questions on that. I'm glad we're proceeding with it. 01:38:07
So thanks for all your effort. Thank you very much. OK. 01:38:14
A little faster than I thought, which is great, so let's keep moving on. 01:38:20
Item 3 is a call to the public. Cassandra, do you have anybody that wants to say anything on the Internet there now? How many do 01:38:26
we have today? 01:38:30
Three, that's great. OK, Anyone here locally in Globe that wishes to address? 01:38:35
US call to the public no. And Tyler anyone in Payson? 01:38:43
OK, great. So let's move on to item number 4, which is our reports. 01:38:51
Manager men love. 01:38:56
This chairman, two things I'd like to bring up today. First of all, at a season of gratitude, long term trust, appreciation to 01:39:00
Healer County employee. We have many great employees that are committed to service, service to the public. I appreciate them. We 01:39:08
all appreciate them and the work that they do to hopefully bring things, make things better for the citizens of Healer County. 01:39:16
And what I acknowledge the Board of Supervisors and as a part of the budget. 01:39:25
Was included at 2% merit raise increase for departments and it'll be similar to what was done last year that departments will be 01:39:29
allowed a a lump sum 2% of their salaries budget to administer as they see fit intended as when there are some issues of 01:39:38
compression that we may be able to address some of those it may be for. 01:39:46
It typically would be tied to a merit increase so that. 01:39:56
Departments can based on personnel evaluations, employee evaluations that they can give raises to those that are a step ahead and 01:39:59
a step above others that they will have that flexibility at the department level. So thank you to the Board of supervised for 01:40:07
allowing that and and looking out for our employees that we can hopefully give a little bit more 2% in January, maybe the first 01:40:14
full paper in January and then the second paycheck employee second. 01:40:22
Check in January that those will take effect. 01:40:29
I wanted to acknowledge the Healer County Provisional Community College District. There's an article in the Arizona Silver Belt, 01:40:35
so I think I can go ahead and speak to that, that there's been significant. 01:40:41
Progress made in the Community College district. We're thankful for them because education is important to our youth that live 01:40:49
here in Gila County and this is a great opportunity that the IT is. The Accrediting Commission for Community and Junior Colleges 01:40:57
peer review team came to both campuses of the Community College district. 01:41:05
Payson and Globe and there is a report that will be due out in January. 01:41:15
That will determine give an assessment of where the college is at and it gave three options that. 01:41:20
I think there's a great hope that the college will continue to move forward and that there's great hope to heal a county that as 01:41:30
an educational entity for Utah County, that there's progress being made and that we're moving forward. So I express appreciation 01:41:36
to the board. 01:41:43
Of the Community College district and to all those that have worked so hard to. 01:41:51
Continue to work and see that there is an educational opportunity for kids and youth and adults that all participate in the 01:41:56
Community College history. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Supervisor Humphrey. 01:42:02
Umm, well, on that note, yeah, it's great to see them moving forward trying to reach out on their own. They went through an awful 01:42:10
lot of heat. But I'm glad to see that the heat in the kitchen is, is creating a, a, a brighter future for, for not only the 01:42:17
people, but our education curriculum that, that, that they will be able to work with. And so that's good. And, and other than 01:42:25
that, I have nothing other than I would like to wish everybody. 01:42:32
Happy Thanksgiving and to have a safe and happy holiday and then this is the time of year for me where life slows down a little 01:42:40
bit and and enjoy things in life and pick up the fight in January. But I wish everybody a safe, happy holiday. 01:42:49
Thank you. And you know, I'll add to that. Let's say thank, thank for everyone here, this meeting, a good meeting and we have two 01:42:59
more this year next week and I think the week two weeks after that or something the 3rd and the 17th if I remember right. And and 01:43:06
then we're done for the year. So happy Thanksgiving everyone and be safe and enjoy your Thanksgiving. And with that, I'll adjourn 01:43:13
the meeting. Thank you. 01:43:20
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I said good morning everyone. 00:00:04
OK, We're going to have a work session today. It's November 26th of 2024. It's 10:00 in the morning. And I've asked Eric Mariscal 00:00:08
if you'd leave us in the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 00:00:13
Pledge allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with 00:00:20
liberty and justice for all. Thank you. 00:00:27
Good to see everyone here this morning. 00:00:38
Be myself and Supervisor Humphrey this morning only, and so we'll proceed with the work session. 00:00:42
And we have 3 items. 00:00:50
Which probably will take hours. 00:00:52
The shorter the agenda, the longer the meeting. That's the rule. But anyway, Item 2A is information and discussion regarding 00:00:56
proposed changes in revisions to the Hewitt County ordinance #02-01, which is a right of way ordinance. Good morning, homeroom. 00:01:05
Um, glad to be here again for another work session, chairman and, and, and board members. And we are trying to take advantage of 00:01:17
the dialogue that happens at the work sessions. One of the things that I wanted to say is I was mentored once, 6060 font, 5 pages, 00:01:24
30 minutes. OK. And I'm going to try to live through most of those, but I've already failed the 1st 2:00. There's a 17 slides in 00:01:31
here. 00:01:38
Is the smallest 14 I think, but it's all important information I think. So we'd like to share it with you. And what we're trying 00:01:46
to do is gather the information so we can restart the revision of this right away ordinance. We actually hired someone to to 00:01:53
rewrite this ordinance back in 2022, didn't like the outcome of that write up. It was put on hold and it's been on hold and and 00:02:00
we're going to restart it again and we'll use some of that. 00:02:06
Revisions that were put in place. 00:02:14
But there's a number of permit scenarios that have come up since 2022 that we would like to see addressed in the right of way 00:02:16
ordinance. And so we're going to be sharing those things with you today, OK. And along the way, if you have any questions, don't 00:02:22
hesitate to stop me. There is some information later on that may be affected by the question, but will handle the questions as you 00:02:28
presented. OK. 00:02:34
And and I do have a team here. 00:02:41
The team is. 00:02:44
The public works team that worked on the right of way ordinance that you see Alex and you see Sam, our new surveyor and Scott, 00:02:46
John and Steve Williams are here today and they played a role and plus others have played a role in this, in this outline of what 00:02:55
we think the ordinance should have. So let's start with the ordinance revision, the next slide please. 00:03:03
Is is meant to expand the scope of the ordinance in order to include permitting requirements for covert driveways? 00:03:12
Right way tie insurance and to provide a process to follow in the right of way work being done without a permit when the right of 00:03:19
way work is being done without a permit we'd like to see a process for that permit violations also how to address permit 00:03:27
violations enrollment process and to rewrite for clarity the permit requirements for utilities to work on right of ways. The 00:03:34
original the ordinance that were that were revising was written in 2002 and its main focus was. 00:03:41
Utility work in right of ways OK it it didn't concern itself with. 00:03:49
Property owners doing Co works and driveway tailings and so we'd like to add that to the ordinance. 00:03:54
Let's see if I can remember how. 00:04:08
Workplace. So we have some definitions and we're going to use these definitions in our discussion today and potentially in the 00:04:11
ordinance itself. So the first one is a right of way. It is the full width of the tract of land dedicated for public 00:04:17
transportation that includes all components of the road, including the travel way, the shoulders, the ditches and the utility area 00:04:24
on the road. 00:04:31
Oftentimes on our roads and I'll, I'll probably repeat this later on. 00:04:39
You see water meters in a ditch because the road is too narrow. And so we're putting two things in the same place. And that's a 00:04:43
problem for everybody. It's a problem for us, it's a problem for the utilities, problem for maintenance. And we'd like to see we 00:04:50
can find a way to deal with that going forward. And it's in here in one of the slides. The other one is county right of ways. It's 00:04:57
simply refers to roads maintained by the county. And in the slide you see a number of different county right of ways. 00:05:05
Ways that we do anything with them from a permitting standpoint and we're going to address that in some of the slides here when we 00:05:43
use the word public right of way we and I'll probably use it and then what it means it's all public right of way whether they're 00:05:50
maintained or not OK and a public utility company as a public service corporation recognized by Arizona Corporation Commission via 00:05:58
certificate of conveyance and necessity and the and or a licensed by. 00:06:05
To provide telecom services. So when we think of a utility, we're gonna think of a utility in that way in this PowerPoint 00:06:13
presentation. And then right away encroachments, we're gonna talk about encroachments. And I just wanted to try to define it. 00:06:20
It's, it's something that impacts the ability to use the right of way as a 2 lane Rd. at the posted speed limit. And your input 00:06:27
now and along the way will help with with the rest of the presentation. 00:06:34
So far so good. 00:06:43
Humphrey Yeah, yeah. So it's a work session, so something anytime I I had some questions, but you said there would be slides on it 00:06:45
later. So I'm going to wait for the slides later. And I checked them and if I don't get my answers slides later, then I have 00:06:51
marked which ones I have questions on. Very good. 00:06:56
Mr. Chair, thank you. I have no questions either. So on the next slide it talks about. 00:07:03
Who needs a right away permit and when are they required? And the short answer is anyone working on a public right of way needs a 00:07:11
right of way permit. And so the list is public utility company property owners, commercial property owners and, and those are the 00:07:18
groups that we're going to be talking about in in the rest of the slides. 00:07:24
But anyone working on a right away needs a permit. 00:07:32
So I wanted to just share some things and I, I know that we deal with public utility company franchises separately. Clerk of the 00:07:37
Board handles those franchises and we recently approved two of them. But I just wanted to touch base because I think what's 00:07:43
included in that franchise agreement is very important. 00:07:49
And and certainly public works need to take advantage of what's in those franchise agreements. But the franchise agreement grants 00:07:57
a utility a license to use public right of ways. OK. And later on we're going to talk about what does that mean? Does that mean 00:08:02
county maintain roads? 00:08:07
Or all public right of ways for the purposes of this of this presentation, when we talk about an ability of a, a, a franchise 00:08:13
public utility company using the right of ways, we're going to, we're going to say it's all public right of ways, whether they're 00:08:20
maintained or not. And later on we'll seek legal counsel through the County Attorney and or consultants and we'll figure out if is 00:08:27
it really what is meant by a public right of way in the franchise agreement. 00:08:35
And in the in the state statutes or not, are we are we just limited to county maintained roads or can we require a right away 00:08:43
permit for franchises on all public roads? OK. And again in this presentation it assumes that it's all public right of ways, OK. 00:08:53
And those things can be easily changed. We just say, no, we want to go this way. We're going to go that way. I'm just, I'm just 00:09:03
when we think about what we're talking about here, it's all when we're going to require a right away permit from franchise public 00:09:11
utility companies on all public right aways. So we, we started the franchising back in 2016 and today we have. 00:09:19
27 plus franchise agreements water, electrical and sewer and the elements of a franchise if you were to read the franchise 00:09:28
agreements and you have. 00:09:32
It's a very powerful document. It talks about insurance and talks about indemnification. It is a 25 year agreement for a fee of 00:09:37
$350.00. It's non exclusive. It holds the county harmless for damages to the to the the public utility system as a result of 00:09:44
county maintenance or construction and the county may request for those lines to be relocated if they interfere with Rd. 00:09:52
maintenance. And so it's a well written document. 00:09:59
Very much and choice the state statute it it puts the burden entirely in the utility company for any expenses. 00:10:07
OK. 00:10:14
So Romero, if I could interrupt, you might be coming to this. So tell me you're coming, but. 00:10:19
What assurances do we have if a utility does something in one of the roads that we maintain and does not restore that roadway 00:10:25
appropriately? SO11 of the slides that's addressed that. And basically we can require them to do it. We can do it ourselves and, 00:10:33
and bring and bring those costs to them and we can cancel the franchise agreement, OK. 00:10:42
So public utility companies that did not have a franchise. So we have public. So what do we do with a public utility company that 00:10:52
comes to us and says I want to apply for a right away permit, I don't have a franchise. Do we tell them you can't, you can't do 00:10:58
your work. You have to wait till you get a franchise agreement, the franchise agreements. 00:11:05
Require board approval to just post the franchise and it's a three-week public notice and then a second board meeting to approve 00:11:13
the franchise. So if somebody doesn't have a franchise that comes to public work and we say you need a franchise. 00:11:20
Then they're probably 3-4 months wait for them. OK Or we could have something like a license that says, OK, we're going to have, 00:11:27
we're going to give you a one time license to do the work that you've described and it would have. 00:11:33
Almost identical requirements as a franchise agreement, but on top of that it would have in an assurance for the work to be 00:11:41
performed a bond. 00:11:44
For the work to be performed and we could give them a one time license at basically almost the same cost as a as a franchise 00:11:48
agreement and really encourage them to go get a franchise agreement. OK, they have to do satisfy all the requirements of a 00:11:54
franchise agreement. But we so in in writing this this ordinance we would like to we're going to be addressing that we're going to 00:12:01
pick one way or the other based based on input that we get today. 00:12:08
And again from the legal counsel input that we'll get after we finish writing the ordinance. 00:12:16
Wanted to show you a couple of pictures. The first one shows a water tank and a right away. And I'm not I'm not going to pick on 00:12:23
the water company. Is it? It is at a dead end. Is it at the dead end of this road? This road connect doesn't connect to anywhere 00:12:30
at the end. They may have been doing the turnarounds at that at that end of the right of way. But again, it's a it's a utility 00:12:36
that is in a right of way and maybe it's it's been there for a long time. 00:12:43
And maybe they did talk to the county about it. Maybe they didn't. 00:12:50
But it's an example of how utility, if we don't monitor their work, we'll put the utility in the most convenient place for them. 00:12:54
The other one that shows Tonto Basin County Maintain Rd. that's that's a, that's a road. It is maintained by the county. Somebody 00:13:02
does a trench and the trench was going to be left to be found out about it on a Friday. 00:13:11
We felt that that was a safety hazard. 00:13:20
We took our action to do some traffic control for it so that it could survive the weekend without somebody falling in the trench. 00:13:24
And then we work with with that person. We was a person, not a utility doing the work. And in this ordinance we would not allow a 00:13:32
person to do work, utility work. We would only allow utilities to do utility work, a person. 00:13:40
A property owner who do work in the right away just for their culverts and their driveway. Tie insurance. 00:13:49
But but utility work on a on a public right of way would only be allowed for public utility companies. 00:13:56
I have a question on something like that. No matter who's doing the work, could we put something in there that they have to notify 00:14:07
us if they are working on a weekend so we can be a little more observant of? Because nobody works on a weekend and a lot of these 00:14:15
things are done on weekend, so could they be asked to? 00:14:23
On the permit to. 00:14:32
Let us know if they're going to be working on weekends and what weekend exactly. If they, if they applied for a permit, we would 00:14:34
put the requirements of traffic control. You can't leave a trench uncovered overnight. These are typical requirements that we put 00:14:40
on a right of way permit. The problem here, they did not apply for a permit and so it was worked without a permit that was taking 00:14:46
place. Had it been permitted, we would have had a problem. First of all, we would have questioned why is the person doing the work 00:14:51
in a utility. 00:14:57
2nd, we wouldn't allow Friday afternoon work, late Friday afternoon work to happen without them having the provisions of steel 00:15:05
plates over the trench or having filled in yet. You're right. And so when work happens on a weekend, it it unpermitted, it is 00:15:14
problematic and we need to find a way to when we when, when we do find out that that happened, that it whoever's doing. 00:15:24
Work and it's in one of the slides pay double the fee, reimburse the county for any work we do, including going out there on a 00:15:33
weekend and and and monitoring the work when somebody calls in. But there there ought to be something that discourages people to 00:15:39
try to do right away work without a permit. Now utilities responsibilities wouldn't do that. OK, the gas company here wouldn't do 00:15:45
that. 00:15:52
That the larger electrical utility companies wouldn't do that and so so but but it does happen. 00:15:59
And it is a problem for us. 00:16:04
OK. So Honero, would this typically get blue staked to do this trench that you're showing? Would it typically be blue stick by a 00:16:08
utility? Yes, we put the burden of blue staking on the right away permit holder. So if this individual. 00:16:17
Had a call for a blue stake on this trench that he dug. Would we be notified of that, that it was permitted or not permitted, or 00:16:28
so he could call for a blue stake, get it and still dig? 00:16:34
No, we would not be notified that. 00:16:41
It was blue state and we don't believe that they blue state that area. 00:16:45
Well, that's pretty dangerous, but still I'm just so my my question was if it gets blue state, does it require a permit to do the 00:16:49
blue stake? No. 00:16:54
They wouldn't notify us and we don't believe that they called it in, OK. And that's two separate like departments, entities, 00:17:00
everything to where we don't communicate with the blue state people. 00:17:06
We can bring that up with them to see if they that they can notify us for for that and we'll take that as an action item. OK, 00:17:13
thanks. 00:17:18
OK. So the next slide is Allison Drive in Pine. This is a public right of way that's not maintained by the county. 00:17:28
County actually has a quick claim through this road. OK, so in in essence you could say the county owns the road, but the board 00:17:39
has never taken action to accept this this quick claim and accept this role and therefore we don't maintain. 00:17:46
OK, it's a 35 foot public right of way. And when you think of roads in Healer County, that's that's a pretty wide Rd. However, if 00:17:54
you look at it, there's about 15 feet between vehicles and, and the, and the other item that you look at here is one neighbor 00:18:01
parks and RV. And so now it's OK to park a car in a county right away, then another neighbor parks and RV and pretty soon this 00:18:09
public Rd. that we don't maintain, but it's still a public road and it can be enjoyed by the people. 00:18:16
That that that use it as a public Rd. has become a parking lot. And that's an issue that we see often and you begin to see in the 00:18:24
picture. It's not just vehicles, it's trailers and equipment and other things, OK. 00:18:31
So we're trying to address that in the ordinance. And then in the next slide you see a picture of South Park Road and meets Ranch. 00:18:39
And what you see is that the right of way actually extends full foot behind the fence. The fence encroaches on the right away by 00:18:45
about four sheep. 00:18:52
So when a utility company see that and they get a right away permit, they'll assume that the fence is the edge of the right away 00:18:59
and they'll put the beater on the roadside of the fence instead of on the other side where it could be long and pretty soon you 00:19:04
end up with a very narrow Rd. 00:19:09
And water meters are a big problem for Elia County, OK and and they often encroach on the travel way. And the other picture is a 00:19:15
picture of Navajo Dr. The company came to us to get a permit for a right of way. We gave them a right away permit thinking that 00:19:23
they were going to trench some some reasonable amount. This is a road that's a platted Rd. It is. 00:19:31
A public Rd. that has never been built out. It's what we call the paper Rd. 00:19:40
It exists on a plat. It was dedicated. In fact, this road in essence was accepted by the county on that plan. But we have never 00:19:45
maintained it. And it's not a maintained road. And they and they don't want it to be a maintained Rd. but they but because it is a 00:19:51
public Rd. we, the utility company came to us. We gave them right away and they took every tree out and created a drainage issue 00:19:57
for the people downstream. 00:20:04
And it's, it's again, it's us, our staff being. 00:20:11
Cognizant of the these these things can happen and taking the proper precautions in the engineering drawing and the other 00:20:19
information that's provided to us. But the utility company also should have known better. You don't tear down a 12 foot path or a 00:20:24
trench that only requires 2 feet. 00:20:29
Anyway, those are problems that we've encountered along the way. 00:20:37
So the next slide is about right away permit requirements for public utility companies on all public right of ways new 00:20:41
construction and I tried to highlight the slide with blue and maybe I missed a few, but we already require most of these things, 00:20:48
OK. The things that we don't require are shown in red. 00:20:56
A license if the board agrees that we can issue a license for a one time use of the right of way. 00:21:05
Where there is no franchise and also grading and drainage permit will be required for paper rolls. 00:21:12
And and and. 00:21:18
Normally when you think about work on a right of way, if if all you're doing is you're digging a trench and you're putting the 00:21:21
road surfers back to the same elevation with no changes to the road surface, it basically says why do you need upgrading and 00:21:27
drainage permit? You haven't changed drainage and we can accept that logic except on paper roads where a road doesn't exist and so 00:21:33
a grading and drainage should be required. 00:21:39
On all paper rows. 00:21:46
To avoid the issue of, but basically everything that you see on this slide other than what's in red is already required by the by 00:21:48
the current ordinance and by roadway design standards manual. 00:21:54
So that was utility companies doing new construction. The next slide is utility companies doing planned repairs and emergency 00:22:02
repairs and so. 00:22:07
The current ordinance doesn't really refer to plant repairs, OK, but instead it requires a permit for any work on the right of way 00:22:15
by a utility. So because it's it's written like that staff over the many years, and I'm not talking about our current staff, but 00:22:23
the staff over the many years has may or may not have required a right of way ordinance for plant repairs. 00:22:31
But we should require an ordinance for, for, for planned repairs because we want to know first of all, we want to make sure that 00:22:39
they have traffic control and we want to make sure that they have insurance because it's our, it's our, some of those are the, 00:22:43
some of these roads are ours. 00:22:48
And we bear that liability And so, and we want to make sure that they are not changing the alignment of the utility. And if they 00:22:52
are changing the alignment of the utility, then we go back to new construction, requiring them to do the, the things that are 00:23:00
required of new construction. So in a planned repair, we, we wouldn't need necessarily an engineering drawing a site plan would be 00:23:07
good enough. They're not changing anything. So we, we, a site plan would be sufficient for us. 00:23:15
Less work for the utility, but nonetheless we we think that we should require, it should be clear in the ordinance that we would 00:23:23
require a right of way permit for a utility company for plant repair and then emergency repairs so. 00:23:29
The existing ordinance does mention emergency repair and of course, if it's an emergency, they should do the work and they should 00:23:38
notify us in in here. I've added 24 hours. The ordinance was unclear as to when they give us a notification, but they should 00:23:46
notify us by phone or e-mail in 24 hours. Actually, I think the ordinance is in three days. OK, but because now that the e-mail 00:23:53
exists, that maybe didn't exist. It's the way that it's used today, in 2002. Today you can send us. 00:24:00
And often people pick it up on their phone and we know that there's an emergency repair taking place. And then three days after 00:24:08
the emergency takes place, they need to give us the paperwork to say why was this an emergency and what was performed, the site 00:24:15
plan and photos of that work. And of course, all of these Rd. repairs are not final until the county approves. OK. So those are 00:24:22
the things that would remain in our ordinance or be revised in the ordinance. 00:24:29
The next slide, this is all new and reason for the red bond at the top is because everything here is new. We've had policy perhaps 00:24:37
on how do we how we replace Culvers, but we but it's not found its way to any ordinance, OK. And the policy is unwritten, OK. So 00:24:44
over the years public works have done what what the public works director thinks he's right, OK. And and it's changed over time 00:24:52
and we want to make sure that this is in writing and that we have a way to answer questions about. 00:24:59
What does the county do with culverts? Now some counties do what's on this piece of paper, other counties do not do anything. The 00:25:07
culvert is at the cost at at the entire cost of that coverage on the property owner. OK. And so there's there's different ways of 00:25:15
doing this and it's board input will guide us as to which way we go. So the proposal is that. 00:25:22
That if somebody wants to install a new program. 00:25:33
And it's the owner that's that's making the request because if the county wants, if our, if our Rd. yards want to install a 00:25:36
culvert for and it benefits the road, we we don't need the owners. 00:25:42
Permission, because the right of way is ours will notify the owner, but we can take that action by ourselves. OK, But now if 00:25:50
somebody is requesting a call and it's and it's a new, it's a new covert. 00:25:56
We would, we would allow. 00:26:05
Folks through places as many as 2 covers per parcel. 00:26:07
And they would buy the covert and we would we would install it. 00:26:12
If they want more than two culverts and they need an engineering plan to show us why they need more than two and and the plan 00:26:17
needs to show us that the coach is going to work efficiently and not cost a problem for us. The maximum size of the cover would be 00:26:24
18 inches and the minimum distance would be approximately 30 feet and the ordinance will probably make it 30 feet and that 30 feet 00:26:32
is driven from the roadway design standard manual that does tell us what the dimension between. 00:26:39
But it uses a you have to, you have to use math based on the size of the culvert you're measuring to the median of of the two 00:26:48
culvers and it and it ranges between something like 30 and 20 feet. So we would pick, we will pick a dimension that says the 00:26:55
maximum distance between. 00:27:01
I'm sorry, the minimum distance between the callers will be X today. We're thinking it's going to be 30 feet on that orbit, 00:27:09
allowing our staff to clean out those forwards when they need to. And that's, that's the whole driver for that minimum distance. 00:27:16
To replace an existing covert on the county right away. So somebody calls in and says I want you to replace this cover and that 00:27:25
culvert meets the county dimension of 18 inches. Then we would replace it at no cost. It's which is we would consider that part of 00:27:31
main the maintenance for that work. Ditches and culverts are an essential part of a road. OK. And water is like I mentioned 00:27:38
before, water is roads worse than I mean. So we want the water off the road it being carried away. 00:27:45
And so there's an existing culvert that that meets the 18 inch requirement. We would replace ourselves. And if it's not, if it's a 00:27:52
smaller culvert, then we would go back to the property owner, say you have to buy the culvert, we'll install it as if it were new, 00:27:58
OK. 00:28:03
If on other public roads. 00:28:10
That the county does not maintain the property owner would be responsible for all the work. They would not be. We would, they 00:28:14
might, they may apply for a right away permit, but they would, we would tell them that what they need is a greedy and Greenwich 00:28:22
permit to to, to do that work, assuring us that he's not causing harm to other folks downstream and or upstream. 00:28:29
With the installation of that so for non county maintained growth it's entirely in the owners expense and would require a grading 00:28:38
and drainage permit. 00:28:42
So the next slide is new residential driveway tie insurance and. 00:28:51
If this is not necessarily today addressed in the right of way ordinance, but it is addressed in the local design standards 00:28:58
manual, OK and the low wage design standard manual, it's a very technical manual that guides folks on what to do for new road 00:29:04
construction. 00:29:11
And it includes driveway targets. And so we would incorporate that into the right of way ordinance. A right away permit would be 00:29:18
required. We would make sure that they're complying with the standards manual. 00:29:26
All driveway costs are funded by the property owner. So they're putting in a driveway and part of that driveway is in our right of 00:29:37
way, but but it's their driveway and all cost belongs to that, to that property owner. And either the work, this is again 00:29:43
residential, either the work is performed by a registered insured contractor or the property owner provides proof of insurance. 00:29:50
Property owner wants to do it, show us proof of insurance because we're liable for that road, OK. 00:29:57
And by the way, I'm talking about county right aways in this first section, OK, in the bottom section, I'll be talking about 00:30:05
everything else. 00:30:09
For a road that we maintained, we would have these requirements. A site plan and traffic control would be required. It's it's our 00:30:14
Rd. We have liability for it. Grading and drainage permit may be required. We've seen evidence of or examples of where people put 00:30:20
in a covert or a driveway and it causes some problems upstream and we want to make sure that there are no drainage issues. It may 00:30:27
include a covert installation if it does. 00:30:34
As part of this residential driveway tie in, the county would install that that particular cover. 00:30:41
OK. So then if it's not a county right away, if it's not a road to be maintained and it's one of those public right of ways that 00:30:48
we do not maintain, it would require a breathing and drainage permit, OK. It wouldn't require a right away permit. It does not 00:30:56
require compliance. The way we're thinking is that this does not require compliance with roadway design standards manual. 00:31:04
You know, we could, we could pick the option and say why not? Why aren't we requiring that of this residential driveway? 00:31:13
And some counties do, Maricopa County, for instance, does. Most counties don't OK, if you're not, if, if we don't maintain that 00:31:23
road, we want to be as far away from any liability with that road as possible. However, there is there's two sides to that. One of 00:31:29
them is one of these days they may apply for that rule to be maintained by the county. And so if that's the case, why didn't we 00:31:35
require the things that we would normally require for our roads? 00:31:41
And based on board of supervisor input and our our legal team, the County Attorney and other consultant, we will we may change 00:31:49
that over time, but. 00:31:56
Today, the way this is written, we would just require grading a drainage permit and the grading and drainage permit would probably 00:32:03
require traffic control as part of that permitting process. All driveway driveway tie in costs are funded by the property owner of 00:32:10
course and including the design, material and installation. 00:32:16
Any questions? 00:32:24
I'm good, thank you. 00:32:29
Something just came to my mind on the road we were discussing at East Verde Estates, Kings King King Rd. Kings Rd. So it's very 00:32:31
problematic Rd. drainage issues, all of that. So if we were to the county were to take the attitude of OK well these are citizens 00:32:40
of the county that have trouble. This is a non maintained Rd. by the county. What can we do to help? 00:32:49
It would, would that be the attitude that we would have? You know, let me show you what we can do. 00:32:59
This is how we can accomplish a better end result. 00:33:06
Versus just coming to a black and white decision of we're not going to accept that road, we're not going to do this or that. Do we 00:33:11
have a means where we can assist? 00:33:17
There's 8 or 10 property owners there that are struggling with some real serious roadway problems. 00:33:24
That's a that's a complicated issue. We are planning a work session, hopefully end of January. 00:33:34
To talk about roads, abandoning roads, accepting roads I. 00:33:42
And today we have, because there have been some. 00:33:47
Folks interested in asking the county to maintain that role. We, we have developed a little, a little template that says here's 00:33:54
the things that you should be satisfying and here's how this role ranks against those items. There's two or three things that that 00:34:01
really in my mind stands out. One of them is the traffic count. 00:34:08
How does that road compare with all the other 750 miles of non maintained county roads? 00:34:16
And the other one is drainage. Drainage is a major issue and it's a forever issue, doesn't go away. It's not like where we can we 00:34:23
can add gravel to the road. Drainage waters got to go somewhere and you need to know where that water is going to go when we 00:34:28
accept the road. 00:34:32
And those two things always need to be at the top. I think of our minds as we move forward the, the, the January work session, 00:34:38
we'll start with, we've been receiving because you've heard this before, $9 million a year to maintain growth in 2007, something 00:34:44
like that. Forget that. And and that money has not increased over time and there's little expectation for us to expect that to 00:34:50
increase. And so if there is an upper limit to what we can maintain, then we we need to consider that in, in that formula of 00:34:56
making. 00:35:02
Official which votes to accept. Now, there may be roads that we shouldn't be maintaining and interesting, it's interesting that 00:35:08
the Forest Service has mentioned a couple of them to us and we're going to work with them and, and and with the board as to 00:35:14
whether or not we should continue to maintain those roads. But that's that's something that we should be looking at and that's all 00:35:20
part of a much longer discussion. 00:35:26
In a future work session to to talk about roads because I think we need to have that discussion again, that's been left very much 00:35:33
to our director of public works to make all those decisions and it changes with with with the director. 00:35:40
And we should have guidance on that, that we follow as we move forward. If the the only strict part about that is we can, we don't 00:35:47
maintain a road unless the board approves for us to maintain that road that that policy has always been followed. 00:35:54
I didn't answer your question, I don't think. But well, no, it's, it's not a very clear question. Obviously the So let's say 00:36:01
there's 8 owners on there. They all signed a petition. We want this fixed. And so as a particular owner, so let's say I own one 00:36:08
piece of that and say, well, I want to put some money toward this. It's a private kind of a private road. The county doesn't 00:36:15
accept it, but it's a paper road and so. 00:36:21
But no one else wants to put money toward it. So nothing ever happens. Nothing ever gets done because no one can all get together 00:36:28
at one time to do it so. 00:36:33
My concern from the position I have would be, well, how can we best serve the public in this way? And so that was my question. Is 00:36:39
there any means to help them facilitate a cooperation with each other to get that? That's a, that's a nasty Rd. I went up on it a 00:36:47
few days ago and it's bad and it's like a driveway. So King, Kings Rd. that's the name of the world, right? 00:36:56
We actually met with those folks. I think we met with them three times and one, one time with most of the folks that lived on the 00:37:06
road and the other times with just the individual person. 00:37:10
And, and we did coach him on what we expected for them to do with drainage, OK. And I was joined by, by by the road yard folks, by 00:37:15
the surveyors, by flood control in, in those visits. And we, we kind of have laid out for them what we think. 00:37:25
Should be done the ability of one owner to convince seven other people. That remains to be seen. I I'd be willing to host a 00:37:35
meeting with them with, with the group and, and try to guide the discussion a little bit. But it's, it's, it's a difficult thing. 00:37:42
They all need to agree and they all need to allow water to flow where it needs to flow. And, and sometimes we can't find that 00:37:48
ready solution. 00:37:55
Sometimes we can't fix that. 00:38:03
I've been to other places. I think it's Round Valley, where we have laid out what the requirements were to bring those roads in to 00:38:05
maintenance. Those are much different kind of roads in much better shape. They're actually maintained by the group right now. 00:38:12
And it has ample Eastman drainage. We we told them what we wanted for drainage and they're willing to do it. And they haven't come 00:38:21
back to the table because the whole community isn't in agreement to do that yet. Some people don't want the road to be maintained 00:38:26
by the county. 00:38:31
OK, and so they need to resolve that under all. 00:38:38
OK. Thank you. 00:38:43
Thank you. 00:38:46
Again, on this commercial property right away culverts that blue is meant to show things that we that are in the ordinance that we 00:38:48
can do today. And if you're a commercial property and you want a driveway, a culvert or a driveway tie in either or both on a 00:38:56
county right away on a road that we maintain, then you would need a right away permit. You'd have to comply with our manual. 00:39:04
You would need a grading. A grading and drainage permit may be required. 00:39:14
Work to be performed by a registered contractor and the corporate and driveway and the driveway tie in installation is funded by 00:39:17
that property owner. This is very much what we did with The Perrys, by the way, when The Perrys came to us and they said we want 00:39:25
this driveway, we asked them to do these things. We actually asked them to do a traffic study as well. 00:39:32
And they did that to show us that it was in the right place and would be a safe driveway. But so these would be. 00:39:41
In my mind they're already required. They should be the standard requirements for a commercial driveway tie in and a covert all 00:39:51
other right of ways that are not maintained by the county for commercial properties. It would revert back to a breathing and 00:39:56
drainage permit. Would not have to meet the manual. 00:40:02
And all costs are still with the property owners. 00:40:10
We're almost there. I think we're slide 15 out of 17. 00:40:18
And these last couple of slides are? 00:40:23
Are important. 00:40:29
So the current ordinance addresses breaches to a permit. The ordinance that we have today says if you got a permit, we can and you 00:40:31
don't comply, we can revoke that permit. 00:40:37
And if we revoke the permit and we have to do something on the road, we're going to bring those costs back to you. 00:40:43
You're gonna have to pay for reasonable cost for us to restore the road. 00:40:49
It does not address. 00:40:55
Working without a permit. It does not talk about working without a permit. 00:40:58
And it does not have a sense of urgency when dealing with a violation of a right of way permit. So the way I think of a right of 00:41:04
way permit, if, especially if it's one of our right of ways and we're liable for that road and somebody ***** a ditch right next 00:41:10
to the road. This is not like a complaint from somebody who says my neighbor hasn't cut his weeds. This is about that. At any 00:41:17
moment somebody can fall in that trench and the county gets through. 00:41:23
OK. And so that in my opinion there's there should be a sense of urgency about that. So what do we do? 00:41:31
Whether you get that, especially if you did that without a permit and we need to do something. So with that in mind. 00:41:37
There's two there's two things that can happen on a failure to obtain a right away permit. 00:41:47
The work is ongoing. You're doing the work just like we saw in that picture. We found out on a Friday that somebody's doing the 00:41:55
work. What do we do? Well, we use common sense. Steve Williams and I worked on that and Steve went out there and put some blinking 00:42:00
lights and. 00:42:05
And tape and other things. So just make sure that we at least offered the public some some notice that that trench was there OK. 00:42:11
And so in this particular case it we would issue a seasoned assist letter. The work is ongoing. We would issue a cease and desist 00:42:20
letter and we would require permit compliance in three days for them to come into the office and and and and and. 00:42:28
Comply with the permit that the right of way permit fee would double for for all requirements of of that right away permit. 00:42:37
If permit later on, if it's if work, whatever work has been done that we can't see, we would require pothole and we want to know 00:42:45
that it's something is very 3 foot deep and where it's located. OK, So potholing at the expense of the violator and road repairs 00:42:53
would have to be undertaken and they would not be completed or approved by the county. If it's a traffic hazard like that road 00:43:00
was, the county will take immediate, immediate action and charge back. There's no need. 00:43:08
About it, take immediate action, make the road safe and they're going to pay for it, for our time, for the traffic control 00:43:15
devices, whatever, whatever we use. If the permit compliance is not complete in three days, if they have not come in to do 00:43:22
something, then we'll take another look at the situation and take whatever necessary action we think is appropriate to make the 00:43:28
road safe for the long term. 00:43:35
Not just for the weekend. Then we would be looking at. We want to make this road safe for the long term. This person is not 00:43:42
responding. 00:43:45
And it's our, it's a public, it's a, it's a public road. And we want to make it safe. And we would charge them back for any work 00:43:49
that we do. 00:43:53
If the permit compliance is not obtained in seven days, then and it's a property owner, not a, not a utility, it's a property 00:43:58
owner. We would schedule a hearing with a hearing officer and we would give them five days notice and bring them in front of the 00:44:05
hearing officer, OK. If it's a utility company, we would schedule a board meeting to take action to terminate the franchise for 00:44:13
the license that may have been issued. And of course they would still be responsible for the cost that we incur. 00:44:20
For the restoration of the road. 00:44:28
We were filed with Superior Court to collect reimbursement for work performed by the county. And again we would be seeking County 00:44:32
Attorney, County Attorney does have an opinion on that and we need to blend that in with what we do. What do we do afterwards to 00:44:39
collect that money because the situation is different than we go cut somebody's weeds down. We put a lien on the property, but we 00:44:46
can't put a lien on a public right of way. It basically belongs to us. So we'd be putting a lien on ourselves. So if somebody. 00:44:54
In our public right of way, we need to figure out how do we go back and make sure that we get reimbursement because the lack of 00:45:01
getting reimbursement results in people working on right of ways on a weekend. 00:45:06
And we need to be meaningful in how we go about making sure that people know if they're going to violate the right of way 00:45:14
ordinance, they're they're surprised to pay. 00:45:19
And for the hearing officer, for the property owners, we would be changing right away ordinance to talk about the typical fee per 00:45:26
day and the typical fee per day that's used by the hearing officer is $700.00 a day. And I think you also find that in the state 00:45:33
statutes. So those are things that we were thinking about incorporating into the ordinance. 00:45:41
For failing to get a permit, OK. 00:45:50
Next slide is I wanted to talk a little bit about Rd. design. 00:45:57
So they have a mini Ave. meaningful discussion on on encroachments. We need to look at that that the Gila County Roadway Design 00:46:01
Standard manual does not have a design for a gravel Rd. 00:46:07
What you see here in the with the green font that is for a pav row and I went through that manual and I found the the road with 00:46:15
the least right of way with and it's a it's a low volume Rd. 00:46:22
That has traffic of 25 mph and the minimum right away width is 50 feet OK. 00:46:31
And what what I'm showing on this slide is a gravel Rd. that measures 40 foot wide. 00:46:40
And you see two vehicles, they're approximately sized in scale to this role the pickup trucks have nowadays. Some of them get 00:46:46
close to being 7 foot wide. So the ditch is 2 to one slope, 1 foot deep. It's a very shallow, small ditch. Basically there is an 00:46:55
area outside of the ditch for utilities placement. 00:47:03
And when you Add all these components up, it's 40 feet. There is no shoulder on this road, by the way. 00:47:12
It's just a travel way 11 feet normally there's some footage shoulder on most roles, so this would be a minimum #40 feet. If you 00:47:19
look at other counties like Navajo County or gravel, the smallest gravel right away with is 54 and 54 is pretty common. So it 00:47:27
allows for utilities to be placed outside of the ditch. Otherwise you're putting the water meter in the ditch if it's something 00:47:34
like 24 foot wide. So the next slide shows us a rope that's. 00:47:41
Would like and in this particular rule you can see that. 00:47:49
If you park, if you park just one vehicle, and if you even if you park it in the ditch, you're really obstructing flow. 00:47:55
Traffic flow for something as 24 foot wide and I just wanted to show that that visualization so that we can talk about obstruction 00:48:03
on public right of ways. 00:48:10
And the reason we want to talk about this is we do get numerous complaints about people parking on the roads. And what we do is we 00:48:18
struggle with that every time and try to each time we try to invent what do we do in this particular case? What have we done in 00:48:25
the past? And and we don't necessarily have a policy or a ordinance that directs us in what what we should be doing. And I am 00:48:32
looking for that prescriptive process because not having that is. 00:48:40
County attorney's time and we take up a lot of staff time to try to figure out what we do. And often times we end up doing, I'm 00:48:48
going to say nothing. We're not acting quick enough. And so I'm looking for how do we if we're going to say no and let's have the 00:48:55
no ready to go so that we can tell them no, we're not doing anything. And, and, and we didn't and we don't waste the energies and 00:49:03
the time. If the expectation is that we do something, then what is that something? OK. 00:49:10
And So what is that something is on this particular slide. If it's a county right away and the road belongs to the public and the 00:49:18
county maintains it and there's an obstruction, obstruction defined by meaning you can't travel on this hill something like the 00:49:25
gate or similar to a date and obstruction then we remove upon discovery other words, it's it's a road. We maintain the public 00:49:33
expect to travel on that road. You put something and you're not allowing traffic. 00:49:40
Through Rd. yard. Go remove that. 00:49:48
It should be that simple. OK, if it's an encroachment where you're impeding the flow of travel and you can't meet the speed and 00:49:51
you no longer can travel two way traffic at the allowable speed limit. Oftentimes when I think of that, I think of a minimum turns 00:50:00
of 20 feet. And by the way, this was brought up at one of your town hall meetings, Supervisor Christensen where the. 00:50:08
Fire departments get up and say we need 20 foot of width on a road to to to be able to respond. 00:50:17
So I'm using that as being a minimum clearance that's required. Anything less than that is an encroachment. OK, So we give them 15 00:50:23
days. If it's an encroachment and it still allows traffic at least one way, 15 day notice is given to the property owner or, or or 00:50:30
is placed on the encroachment. If we don't know who the property owner is and it's a trailer without a license plate, we put it on 00:50:38
the trailer. OK. And this, by the way, follows the state statue. 00:50:45
In in the section on transportation that has to do with state highways, but also allows. 00:50:53
The subdivisions of the state, like the county to utilize this, the encroachment would be removed and a person responsible. After 00:50:58
the 15 days, the enforcement would be removed and the person responsible for the enforcement would pay for that cost. 00:51:04
Now, if it's some equipment that doesn't, we can't identify the owner, we may be picking it up and never get paid for it. OK. But 00:51:11
if it's a, it's a licensed vehicle or a vehicle that, that's sitting there, we, we may or may not get paid for, but so we, we say, 00:51:19
well, are we worried about people paying for us eventually? Or are we worried about making this rope passable? And, and, and so we 00:51:26
need to, we need to answer that question as we move forward and we will file with Superior Court to collect. 00:51:33
And again, County Attorney would like for us to find a different way than to that to go through Superior Court. And I put that 00:51:41
down because it was in the state statue allowing subdivisions of the state to behave like this. But this is still subject to legal 00:51:47
review. And again, we're going to take the input from the board, finish writing that ordinance and and get it into the County 00:51:53
Attorney for their review. 00:51:59
So that's where county right of ways, other public roaches and obstruction or encroachment. 00:52:06
We can do the same thing that we have up here, or we can simply tell them, hey, that's an issue that you need to take up. 00:52:12
The property, whoever has that property, we don't maintain that role. 00:52:18
And again, we've used that in the past for the county. I think the sheriff may have used that. If it's not a county maintained Rd. 00:52:23
we can't do anything. 00:52:27
And, and if that's, and if that's our position, I would be, I'm OK with the positions that we take, but I just want them to be in 00:52:33
writing. And again, it's because I don't, I don't want to treat one person one way because I'm the director today, another 00:52:39
director comes in tomorrow. We treat another person differently. There should be guidance on what do we do for roads that are not 00:52:44
maintained by the county. 00:52:49
And somebody parks on it. So then the last item is I want to talk about no parking. 00:52:55
We could. The board could decide it's OK for us to include it in the ordinance or to have a separate resolution that says no 00:53:05
overnight parking on any public roads that have widths of 20 feet or less. 00:53:10
You park there, you're obstructing that first responder. 00:53:16
So park, park on your property, OK, That's an option. The other one is, and I'm referring to the road on on Pine that I showed you 00:53:20
the picture. I think it's Allison Rd. the community members and you saw the cars parked on both sides. It's 35 foot wide. It's a 00:53:28
public Rd. There's no reason why traffic should be obstructed. Community members may come to the board and request no parking on a 00:53:35
specific Rd. segment, OK. 00:53:43
And it would require a number of property owners to petition. The board could be something like 50% for property owners that are 00:53:51
abutting on the road. It would require a public meeting and a report from the county engineer. And then based on that, the board 00:53:57
could take action. Let's say we're going to post at no parking and a resolution that gives the sheriff the authority to haul those 00:54:04
vehicles away based on that designation. 00:54:10
And and those are some ideas that we think are worth for us to consider. 00:54:18
And that's it for my flight. I'm ready to get to have whatever discussion we need to have at this time. 00:54:22
OK. First of all, I would like to thank you very much and all the staff and departments that have put time and energy into your 00:54:33
presentation today because the amount of time and hours and and thought and communication. 00:54:41
Between the departments, from engineering to the road department, to all the people that work on this, you know, putting this 00:54:49
together to even bring to us, I appreciate the effort because we do have issues. And up until now, it's like everybody just shrugs 00:54:57
their shoulder, looks at engineering, shrugs your shoulder, looks at the road department, shrugs your shoulder, call the so say, 00:55:04
hey, is there anything we can do? And so, you know, putting time, energy and effort. 00:55:12
And to this, I think is it a can of worms? Yes, it is. But is it one that's never been looked at that you are taking bringing to 00:55:19
us with the opportunity to look at it? I appreciate it very much. 00:55:26
And so, you know, talking about code enforcement, I, I, I think that's great, you know, because we started it for, for blight and 00:55:34
I appreciate staff working very hard. You know, when I first came on board for blight, our hearing officer and our code 00:55:41
enforcement officer were both paid county employees. So if we put a penalty on somebody, we couldn't do anything about it. And so 00:55:48
then it, you know, then. 00:55:55
Planning and zoning is using it for, you know, health like raw sewage and building without a permit. And so it's great to see that 00:56:03
perhaps maybe you, the road department and these right aways and some things can also get some use out of the code enforcement and 00:56:11
the fact that we can write people citations and turn them over to a collection agency. 00:56:20
To, to be able to write some of these wrongs instead of just shrug your shoulders. Because if, if, if there's not any penalties 00:56:29
and I and, and I don't mean everybody needs to be penalized in the. 00:56:34
Different cases, but, but if you, if you tell somebody they got to move their car or else and there's nowhere else, then they're 00:56:40
going to park four more cars there and and give you the peace sign because there's nothing we can do so. 00:56:47
I think it's great that you're opening this and giving us the opportunity to move forward on a lot of these. And, and you know, 00:56:56
like you say, you put a lot of time, energy and effort and, and I'm behind you 100% and how you deal with it. Like no overnight 00:57:02
parking, okay. You know, I mean, that's, that could be something or just an hour, you know, on a 20 foot Rd. you can only park 00:57:09
there for six hours. 00:57:15
Because you know what if they work at night, so they park there. 00:57:23
All day they're still obstructing our emergency vehicles, but if they're there for a birthday party, you know, we're not 00:57:27
penalizing. They can, they can be there for six hours, so. 00:57:32
And and working on, you know, trying to work with some of these people on on so-called paper roads. 00:57:38
We've got a lot of issues with that because there was an ordinance in the beginning and like Quail Ridge in, in my area, we've got 00:57:46
a utility going up that so-called Rd. that's exposed because nothing, no maintenance is being done on that. 00:57:54
Because everybody owns a piece of the road and they're all fighting and it ends up in lawsuits. And, and I, I even quit wondering 00:58:04
what lawsuits going on now. I used to try to fix it. And it's like some of these lawsuits have got to get over with before we can 00:58:10
come to any agreement. And you know, the county had. 00:58:16
Worked with the utility company to work with them and they were going to furnish the material and we're going to do the labor to 00:58:24
kind of surface this and get some utilities covered. Well, you know, then with the people in lawsuits there, we, we never could 00:58:31
obtain all the easements, which is a, you know, a difficult deal. So on deals like that, if the property owners have a have agreed 00:58:38
at some point in time to have a road on their property. 00:58:45
Through legal is there any, is there any teeth in in that We could, you know, like a supervisor Christian has the issue where 00:58:54
we're not everybody could agree well if they agreed to have a road, is there not something legal that hey, you know, if if you own 00:59:01
half of that road, well then 10 feet of it you have already said it can be a road. So you can't just say no, I don't want anything 00:59:08
done there because you you know so as we look into this further, is there legally something. 00:59:16
That there's a road there and and somebody gave permission for easement for that road to be there. So is there some legal way that 00:59:23
we could make them liable for their original agreement to allow their neighbors to get to their property and now they're saying 00:59:30
no, but anyway. 00:59:37
I, I thank you very much. I, I agree with a lot of it. And like I said, I didn't disagree with any of it. And I appreciate you 00:59:45
looking at it and, and putting that time and energy and effort because you, you were the, you know, the departments that have put 00:59:50
time and energy in this. 00:59:56
Are the ones that deal with this every day on on where people are working and how they're working and not obtaining permits and 01:00:02
so. 01:00:07
I'm I'm very much in favor of expanding our code enforcement, even if we have to expand our expense of a second code enforcement 01:00:13
officer to handle some of the things that we need to deal with and heal account so. 01:00:22
Thank you very much. Thank you, Supervisor Christian, I think I'm finished. Thank you. 01:00:33
Romero, I'll extend my thanks to you as well and the staff involved with this. 01:00:42
What my impression is that there's just a few changes to the existing ordinance, and I would agree with all of the suggested 01:00:49
changes and additions. I do believe that we should have in place on your page #6 about those that do not have a franchise to give 01:00:58
them. It's kind of a one off thing. They need to do some digging. They need to put something in. 01:01:07
They don't need to wait four months to do that to get through process. 01:01:17
So I mean, if they're going to want to be there for years to come, then they need to have a franchise. But. 01:01:23
They just need to do one thing. It's OK. Umm. 01:01:28
My first impression on this photo you have of Ellison Drive and quite a number of the roads you're Speaking of do exist in the 01:01:33
Pine and Strawberry Control Rd. area. These are older communities developed back in the 50s or so, and there's been sort of this. 01:01:44
Understood, Norm that we're going to park here, we're going to store something here. We're going to and the photo you show here, 01:01:57
there's it's more than parking, it's storage. There's people putting their trailers there and if they're turning it into their 01:02:02
property. 01:02:07
So they're not going to be happy to be told to move that. However, it is a public safety concern. If a fire truck can't get down 01:02:15
that road or turn back around or do anything, it is not their property. 01:02:22
So we need to do and I realize this is a transition, but it's time I think for Healer County and these areas to. 01:02:30
To grow up, in a sense, we are maturing as a county and this is not 60 years ago when you could do just whatever you wanted and no 01:02:42
one really cared or noticed. Now we have much more congestion and public safety and easement and utilities. They need to be able 01:02:51
to move and get into these places. So I agree with the changes you're making. 01:02:59
I realize there's probably going to be a challenge to enforce. 01:03:07
However, we do need to have the. 01:03:13
We need to have it in place. We need to make these appropriate changes. I agree with that and I do thank you for that. 01:03:16
Thank you. 01:03:23
So is that the end of your presentation? 01:03:25
We're done. OK, thank you for your input. Any more comments on that one? 01:03:29
OK. All right. Thank you, Romero. And as time goes on, if you do have comments, make sure you. 01:03:35
Sure. OK. Thank you. All right, so we'll move on then to Item 2B. And this is information discussion regarding proposed changes to 01:03:41
the Healer County Minor Land Division ordinance. Good morning, Randy. Morning, supervisors. By the way, I have 5 flights, so I met 01:03:49
Homer's requirements. Clearly, you get the Gold Star. 01:03:57
So by the way, it's the same staff that they talked about Scott and Sam and and Alex and Homer and me and stuff and working on 01:04:06
this too. So I want to give staff some kudos too. 01:04:13
So the ordinance that we're talking about was adopted in 1989. It was last changed, had a minor change in 2006. 01:04:21
So there's a state statue that goes along with minor land divisions that is 11831. Minor land divisions are land that are split 01:04:32
into 5 parcels or fewer and are less than 10 acres. 01:04:39
We have a lot of people that split and then re split and then re split and then re split. 01:04:49
You're only allowed to do it 5 splits, then you sell it, and then if someone else splits it and there's enough land there, they 01:04:56
can do that. But you're not supposed to be doing that in any way to try to get around the subdivision requirements, which is over 01:05:03
5 lots. And again, we have nothing to do with that. That is all through the Department of Real Estate. 01:05:11
We have no control or no say over that, so I just wanted to bring that up. 01:05:19
We also, it says the state statute the county may not deny approval of any land division that meets the requirements of this 01:05:25
section. So this is not up to us to just say we don't like it, we can't do with it if they meet the requirements we are not 01:05:30
allowed to deny. 01:05:36
And those requirements are partial meets minimum aptical zoning requirements. Now the question is, does that apply to Young? And 01:05:43
Young would not be denied because they don't meet zoning ordinance because there are no zoning ordinances there. Well, there are 01:05:51
some, but overall Young does not have zoning. So this would not be denied for not meeting the zoning. 01:05:59
The applicants provide a preliminary title report or acceptable document that demonstrates legal access to parcels. 01:06:09
Appkin provides a statement from a licensed surveyor or engineer or other evidence acceptable to the county that each partial has 01:06:18
a physical access that is transversible by a 2 wheel drive passenger vehicle. If you will get into this a little bit, but 01:06:24
basically. 01:06:31
The Fiscal Asset access is statement on the survey that says you can get there by a car. 01:06:38
The legal, I mean, sorry, yeah, that's not legal address or access is we're wanting to make a change that it requires a 24 foot 01:06:46
Rd. and Homer just went through that and explained why we would want that. 01:06:52
The applicant reserves reserves the necessary and appropriate utility easements to serve each parcel created by a minor land 01:07:01
division. 01:07:05
It's an absolute acknowledges that it is unlawful to attempt to avoid the subdivision laws by acting in concert to divide parcels 01:07:11
of land into six or more parcels. 01:07:16
So currently we're doing most of the stuff, some of the stuff that's in our ordinance we have not enforced. We have a couple of 01:07:26
things we want to add to help enforce this as we move forward. 01:07:33
So a record of survey for a minor land division drawn by a lands surveyor, meaning all Arizona Boundary Service survey minimum 01:07:40
requirements and showing existing proposed boundaries access utility easements. What currently happens now is when a surveyor 01:07:49
draws up a minor land division, they submit that to Scott, Warren or Sam and they do the math and they make sure those lines. 01:07:58
Closed and meet the requirements. 01:08:08
Once Scott does that, he also looks over the overall form of it. He shifts it to me and I review and make sure it's cleaning, 01:08:11
zoning, We have access, we have all the stuff required. Nothing's too close to the property lines, nothing's going over the 01:08:16
property lines and so on. 01:08:22
Name and address is Vol Properties, our parties of interest to the Land Division. 01:08:29
Deception of access Our description of access to the parcel proposed to be divided and manner access is granted within the 01:08:37
statement from the register for Surveyor stating whether each parcel has fiscal address and that is transferable by A2 wheeled 01:08:43
vehicle. 01:08:49
Current zoning of the parcels and areas and dimension of all the parcels, that's what we're doing now. 01:08:58
Now the state statute addresses. 01:09:05
Some of the. 01:09:11
Lot line adjustments, but we don't in our ordinance. Our ordinance was dealing with minor land divisions and not lot line 01:09:14
adjustments. So we're going to add lot line adjustments in there because that's a pretty common thing that happens a lot here is 01:09:22
people and subtract and it usually takes two or more parcels to do a minor to do a lot line adjustment. 01:09:29
The same thing while I adjustment has to be drawn by a surveyor meeting all the Arizona boundary minimum standard and showing 01:09:38
existing imposed boundaries of the access as required name and address for both parties of interest to the lot line adjustment, 01:09:45
current zoning the parcels and areas of dimension for all parcels. 01:09:52
The next page which is our. 01:10:02
This kind of highlights everything. I will tell you that if you look at number two there, we wrote write existing improvement 01:10:06
structures. We currently have some of that in our ordinance, but it hasn't always been enforced. The one thing I want to make sure 01:10:14
we talk about is showing the setbacks if you look at the end of the second line there. 01:10:22
What happens is they'll show me a structure on the building, but won't tell me how far it is. 01:10:30
So for zoning, you have to have minimum step back if you ask 20 feet from the front and the rear and seven and seven from the side 01:10:36
or 7:00 and 9:00. So we're just getting to clarify that. 01:10:42
So there's no misunderstanding that also helps the people buying the property. 01:10:49
They know what they're getting into. If they see something that doesn't meet the zoning requirements, they can deal with that. 01:10:55
One of the things that third line there that we're wanting to start having the surveyors put on the survey is the FEMA flood 01:11:04
zones. 01:11:09
Um, as you know, that's a big target that's, that's changing and, and people are buying parcels and don't know that they're in the 01:11:15
flood. They don't even know how to look that they're in the flood. They don't know that they can go to FEMA and pull up their 01:11:22
parcel and or would turn a minor land division. They don't even have a partial number yet, so they can't see if it's going through 01:11:30
there. So as part of the process that we're wanting to make the changes to. 01:11:37
As we want to show FEMA on there, one of the things we've talked about are in staff has talked about it in the moving forward is 01:11:44
wanting to add the topos on to. 01:11:53
Minor land divisions and lot line adjustments, but state statue says we cannot require them to do a independent. 01:12:02
Study of that, but currently the county is looking at doing that across the county and when that comes into play, we want to come 01:12:11
back to you and, and we would provide that information to them to the surveyors, but they would put it on the minor land division. 01:12:18
And one of the reasons that we came up with is make sure they have a building envelope right? That they they bought this this 01:12:24
parcel and it may not have the proper. 01:12:31
Building envelope because it's in the flood. 01:12:38
Or that's on the slopes. You know, there's a lot of things that can come into play and we want to address that. 01:12:41
It there will be an added expense here, the surveyors, I'm I'm sure going to charge a little bit more to put this information on 01:12:47
there. But again, this is helping the person buying the parcel and it's helping the person selling it that they don't come into 01:12:53
liability either that hey, you sold the parcel. It doesn't even have a building envelope on there for a structure to go on. So 01:12:59
we're looking at that. 01:13:05
We have there's an acknowledgment, so if they don't meet these requirements that we've talked about, they can still record their 01:13:16
easement. They have put acknowledgement on there that this parcel will not get a building permit or youth permit and moving 01:13:23
forward until it comes into compliance. So we're not stopping them from recording it. We're not getting in their way that they 01:13:31
think sometimes, but they have to put that statement on there and then the recorders will. 01:13:38
And it'll be there. And that way anyone coming and purchasing that property will see that there's no building permits or use 01:13:46
permits that's going to be issued until they bring that into compliance and show all those requirements, those five requirements 01:13:51
that were on there to get approved. 01:13:56
If you'll notice up there on the upper right hand corner, I didn't mention the reason we have the lot LA highlighted in red is 01:14:04
because our current ordinance doesn't address this. We do it, we have been doing it, but we're adding that into the ordinance 01:14:10
here. So I just wanted to clarify that. 01:14:16
Lot line adjustments are approved once we end minor land divisions once we get all the information we need. Currently we have 30 01:14:25
days I state statue and by our ordinance that from when the time the surveyors get it to us we have 30 days to. 01:14:34
View all that information and either send it back to them. Like if Scott saw that the math wasn't right, he would send it back to 01:14:45
the surveyors. They would address that, resubmit to us. 01:14:51
I then look at this, I said at the zoning and I will tell you we have even taken our staff once it comes to us and I approve it, 01:14:58
we've sent a notice to the surveyor, bring your Mylar in. I signed the Mylar staff even takes that back down to the recorder to 01:15:07
get recorded for the surveyors. So I mean we're, we're doing everything we can to help this process. 01:15:15
And as you know, especially Supervisor Humphrey. 01:15:24
Is is splitting daily? 01:15:28
And there have been complaints. 01:15:33
About some of that, again we have no say over that. That is Department of Realty. But the stuff that does come to us, we want to 01:15:37
make sure is is correct and as as as properly documented as possible. 01:15:44
One of the good things that we're doing is at the bottom there is you'll see recorder survey. So this is basically you own the 01:15:53
piece of property, you've had a piece of property and you just want to verify where your boundaries are. So you you paying, you 01:16:00
have a record survey done. Currently they submit that to Scott again, he does that math. Then it comes to me and I still look for 01:16:06
all the same stuff, but that's not a requirement. So we're taking that. 01:16:13
Record of survey by itself not a minor land and not a lot of line adjustment. Just a record survey. 01:16:21
Find the foundry that they don't have to go through us anymore. They can just take that down to a recorder and record it. 01:16:26
That way it just opens it up to them. They're not weighing in because I will tell you as it comes to me, I look for my, you know, 01:16:34
buildings and if I have a building going across a lot line record a survey. I'm not going to sign that. And in in words of the 01:16:41
county is saying I'm giving away someone else's property. So now I will agree that a record survey is just showing the boundaries. 01:16:47
The surveyors not doing anything special. It's just showing. 01:16:54
The boundaries for that parcel, but we still don't want to be signing it as the county approving that when it there may be some 01:17:02
issues there. 01:17:05
Um. 01:17:10
The Scott would still do courtesy reviews if they wanted on the on the Roses or any of those things. Cut and Public Works has been 01:17:15
very gracious and doing courtesy reviews for them to see if they can. 01:17:23
Address any of the issues that someone might have missed. That also makes it better for the county. We get a better map or a 01:17:33
better survey in our system and it's it's pretty. 01:17:39
Good thing overall. So the surveyors get a second set of eyes on it and the county gets better surveys. 01:17:49
Next slide. 01:17:57
One of the things on the bottom there is because we don't currently have a fee for landline adjustments because it's not in our 01:18:00
our ordinance. We wanted to add that fee for the work that gets done, but none of the minor land divisions fees would be changing. 01:18:06
This would only be for the lot line. 01:18:12
And with that, I'm open for any questions. I went through that pretty quick, but I. 01:18:19
The ordinance is fairly old and we're just trying to update it just to hear to what the counties growing pains are that we have. 01:18:26
Thank you, Randy. Supervisor Humphrey. 01:18:38
Yeah, again, again, thank you, Randy, because. 01:18:41
You know, I've said the whole time, we're only as good as our ordinances. Some of our ordinances were written. 01:18:46
A long time ago and they just don't fit in the world we live in today. And as painstaking as it is to change ordinances, I 01:18:51
appreciate staff willing to work on changing ordinances so that everybody understands what we're doing and, and one department's 01:18:59
not questioning another or they get an answer from somebody which changes if they ask another department. So, so by having these 01:19:06
ordinances for everybody to read, I think it's a great thing. 01:19:14
Because with our state growing as it is, Hilah County is going to grow. And, and I think trying to get ahead of some of the curb 01:19:22
to help protect people from investors and from themselves and, and what they think they want to do with the property they just 01:19:28
bought, that the people they bought from knew they couldn't do anything and that's why they gave them a good deal on the property. 01:19:34
So. 01:19:41
Again, I I think all the staff very much for the I can attitude. 01:19:48
And, and let, and let's try to help instead of say, well, there's nothing we can do because we're just following our ordinances 01:19:54
even though we have old ones. And, and yeah, we are growing up north and now in Tano and, and I've, you know, hope sometime in the 01:20:01
future we can get some growth growing around here. So. 01:20:07
Just thank you for for again, time, energy and effort and trying to make our complaint list go down because our ordinances read 01:20:15
our ordinances and don't call us because somebody said something and somebody said something else. It's like, you know, and, and 01:20:22
having information on property surveys I think is important because there have been people that call me in and they didn't know 01:20:29
when they bought it so. 01:20:35
Darn the Realtors and darn the investors, but, but. 01:20:43
We're trying, we're trying to help. And I, I thank you very much. Thank you, thank you and thanks Randy for putting this together. 01:20:47
I don't disagree with any of the changes you make and really, and we do need to work on that. Help me to understand, obviously if 01:20:56
there's a minor land division, there must be something called a major land division. So why are we limited to five on a minor land 01:21:04
division, 10 acres or less, 5 parcels. Why can't we do 20? You are not limited. You can do 20. You just become a subdivision. 01:21:13
It just requires a different set of rules. 01:21:23
A different so these people that are. 01:21:25
Maybe their friends or whatever, but they're buying a property, they divide it and they sell it and then that person divides it. 01:21:30
They could forego all of that if they went to a subdivision dynamic. Is it more expensive to do that? There's more steps and then 01:21:38
you're going to have to deal with roads, utilities, you know, there's a lot of that would require water. 01:21:47
And you have to have the 100 year water supply for subdivisions. So there's a lot more to it to do subdivisions. But again, this 01:21:56
the state statue and it's very clear that you can't sell it to your buddy to try to get around the requirements of the 01:22:05
subdivision. But we have no authority in in doing that. And I, I. 01:22:13
At the direction of our County Attorney, I filed complaints. 01:22:22
When people come and say, hey, this is becoming a subdivision out here and I would agree with them, but again, I can only file the 01:22:27
same complaint as anyone else can. If anyone ever thinks there's a subdivision going in, they all can file the same paperwork that 01:22:34
I do that goes to department Realty and they may or may not investigate. I'm sure they're busy too, but. 01:22:42
It does not limit them, it just limits them for the minor land division. 01:22:51
Sure. And that's a suspicion that may occur that we're not going to chase that one down. But let's say you have then a major 01:22:55
section of land, I have 100 acres. Now what? What is the process there to divide that? So again, it depends on how you want to 01:23:03
divide it. You could divide it into 520 acre parcels and then sell your 20 acre parcels to whoever or go to the subdivision or 01:23:10
make a subdivision and put a couple 100 houses out there. OK, good. 01:23:17
Last thing, I do believe we need to be charging for any services that we provide. So to do the $200 lot line adjustment, I think 01:23:25
makes sense that we charge for that. Does it cost us more time and energy to do 2 parcels, 3 parcels, 4 parcels, 5 parcels? Is 01:23:32
there a difference there? There is difference because each one, each parcel has to verify that they have fiscal and legal access, 01:23:39
the zoning requirements. 01:23:46
That go along there. 01:23:54
Any of the utilities that come across there, you know when you have 5 parcels and you're putting them in, a lot of times you have 01:23:56
a well and then they want to run water line across all those. So then we have to go back and check easements and everything on 01:24:02
each parcel and have to record them individually. 01:24:08
So it does take more time when there are multiple um. 01:24:16
Parcels. 01:24:20
We've discussed in the past where. 01:24:23
You're concerned from time to time to make sure that we're charging enough. 01:24:28
So that we can operate the department without the. 01:24:33
Huge deficit. So I guess the reason I ask that is could we not just charge 650 for any land divisions period? 01:24:37
Whether it's 2345 discharge the same fee or would that be something we end up with? 01:24:49
Profiting or doing something? 01:24:57
Like that it's only $150.00 difference and to me it seems like if you're gonna divide your land, one fee would be enough. 01:25:00
That is that is certainly up and we can bring that back when we bring the ordinance back that we would look at that and we can 01:25:09
track the numbers down to make sure that we're not profiting office that we're just covering our cost. I mean, obviously that 01:25:16
would be easier for staff to and and even the land owners that they just, you know, write one check and be done with it and 01:25:22
they've done their. 01:25:28
Their things. So yes, I certainly can look at that. I, I don't have the actual numbers that I could tell you right now that 01:25:35
exactly what they are, but we could look at that. 01:25:39
The reason I ask is because you say we're not changing these fees and this is an ordinance that's aging. And as it's aging, then 01:25:43
that means we're getting more and more behind the number the the, the amount that we need to charge perhaps. And we're running 01:25:50
into that with the landfill, we're running into that with other departments and so. 01:25:56
Anyway, I think we have another participant just to chime in on your permit fees. Mr. Chair, Supervisor Humphrey, Randy, with your 01:26:04
permission, we will have a contract coming to the board next month for the company that will be analyzing all of our fees county 01:26:11
wide and coming back to you with recommendations about what those ought to be based on real costs and future cost expectations. 01:26:18
It's helpful to know that. Thank you so much, Baron. 01:26:25
OK. So I don't have any other questions. Any more comments on what we've done on this item? 01:26:33
OK. I, I don't have, I, I have one more question, Mr. Chair, if I may, and I don't want you to answer it, but it's a question that 01:26:39
I'm sure if we have people on on that, I'm going to get asked. Why does Young not have zoning requirements? I'm not going to ask 01:26:46
you to answer that today. Supervisor client is out, but I'm sure with us talking about growing and minor land divisions and things 01:26:53
of that nature. 01:27:01
That is the question that I'm going to be asked. 01:27:08
But I don't want you to answer it. Thank you. 01:27:12
Yeah, it's an interesting area of the county. 01:27:18
For sure. OK. Thank you, Andy. Thank you for that. 01:27:22
OK. Do we have enough time left Joseph for you today? 01:27:26
We don't want to be late for lunch. It's but. 01:27:31
Let's let's move on to Item 2C and that would be information discussion regarding the past, present and future of the Michelson 01:27:35
Building. Good morning, Joseph. 01:27:39
In the past month, we have strengthened the IGA with the City of Globe and other collaborating with other stakeholders. We would 01:27:46
have would like to regroup and outline a path forward to achieve this. We would like to take a look at the past, where we're at 01:27:52
and where we're moving forward. 01:27:58
I'll try and keep it as quick as I can. 01:28:05
Thank you. 01:28:10
That's when the heart of Globe, AZ, the Michaelson Building at 157 S Broad St. stands as a beacon of history and transformation. 01:28:12
Built in 1929 by the renowned James P Michaelson, who also designed the iconic Masonic Hall, the 7980 square foot building was 01:28:19
initially a grocery store. 01:28:27
With an open air market housed that housed Safeway over the years, it passed through multiple hands from George and Margaret Leach 01:28:36
in 1959. By 1991, Hill Accounting acquired the property for $150,000 and in 1994 it was transformed into Child Support and County 01:28:43
Attorney Investigators office, solidifying its role. 01:28:51
In serving the community. 01:29:01
Hill County's acquisition marked the beginning of a new chapter for the Michaelson Building. Its pivotal role in hosting critical 01:29:04
county services like child support and legal offices showcase the adaptability and value of the historic structure. However, in 01:29:10
2015, as departments moved to the Courthouse Guerrero Building, the Michelson Building stood vacant, awaiting its next opportunity 01:29:16
to serve the people of Globe and Hillock County. 01:29:21
The transformation of the Michelson Building is a true partnership between Healer County and the City of Globe, demonstrating the 01:29:28
power of collaboration to revitalize historic infrastructure. Hill Accounting, as the builders owner have invested over 300,000 in 01:29:36
renovation efforts to date, underscoring its commitment to preserving the future the structure and preparing its future use. 01:29:43
Simultaneously, the City of Globe has been instrumental in securing grants and driving the vision for the building future. 01:29:50
In 2018, City of Globes Linda Netto spearheaded the project, collaborating with Matt Glover of Co Host. 01:29:58
Whose urban renewal efforts in Mesa served as inspiration. This partnership sparked the idea of the transformation of the 01:30:06
Michelson building into a business incubator and shared workspace, setting the stage for an innovative and growth and globes 01:30:12
downtown. 01:30:17
Together, Hill County and City of Globe have successfully secured significant funding, including a $650,000 Build Back Better 01:30:23
Initiative grant, USDA Rural Economic Development Initiative. 01:30:29
Fund the support from Freeport, Macaron, Resolution Copper, as we have mentioned in the past have been great partners. These 01:30:35
combined efforts reflect a balance of collaboration, collaborative approach to revitalization, revitalizing the Michaelson 01:30:42
building for the benefit of the entire community. 01:30:49
The renovation of the Michaelson building is progressing steadily, first starting off with the roof replacement as you can see 01:30:59
here in the slides. 01:31:03
Early abatement efforts addressed significant hazards including the removal of lead based paint and asbestos, ensuring compliance 01:31:12
with contemporary safety standards. Looking ahead, the next phase will focus on mold abatement and the demolition of non essential 01:31:18
interior infrastructure. 01:31:24
Which will pave the way for the buildings transformation into a vibrant business incubator. 01:31:32
These projects are fully contracted and set to commence in December. And fishing. 01:31:37
In early February, marking a crucial step in the renovation timeline. With these efforts, alongside the 2023 roof replacement and 01:31:43
the ongoing structural upgrades, the Michelson building is on track to become a city functional and inspiring cornerstone of 01:31:49
Gloves downtown revitalization. 01:31:54
On the slide here, we cut through. 01:32:09
And outline some of the. 01:32:14
Critical infrastructure was supporting the. 01:32:18
The facility, most of the building or most of the buildings walls on the interior are non load bearing so that is a large portion 01:32:21
of what will be removed. 01:32:25
The transformation of the Max building is about more than bricks and mortar. It's a revitalization of gloves to start downtown, a 01:32:35
spark for economic development. 01:32:39
The path forward as we look into the future for the Michelson Building relies on a strong partnership between the City of Globe 01:32:46
and Hill County Facilities teams. Together, we are working to develop a clear and actionable plan for a design build project. 01:32:53
That will bring the shared vision for the historic structure to life. While the City of Globe will serve as the primary entity 01:33:02
responsible for funding and contracting the project, the Hill Accounting Facilities team will continue to play a critical role as 01:33:07
advisors and oversee the construction management process. 01:33:12
Our expertise will ensure that the project executed effectively, maintaining both the historic integrity of the building and the 01:33:18
functionality as a modern business hub. 01:33:22
With that, I'd be happy to take. 01:33:29
Any questions? Thank you, Joseph. Supervisor Humphrey. Yeah, I don't have many questions, Joseph, because I've asked them as we've 01:33:32
gone along with this building. It's something that and we had a presentation just here a while back with the with the investors in 01:33:38
the building and I appreciate. 01:33:44
All of the people that are willing and kind of revitalizing the the downtown area and, and not only that, it's great to have a 01:33:52
working relationship with the city of Globin and and Freeport to be able to all work together. 01:33:59
On a building that that we all can use or, or like you say for young entrepreneurs for helping them have office space and things 01:34:06
as they want to get started. So I, I, I, it, it. It's too bad that it got in the shape that it did. 01:34:15
Before we started. 01:34:25
Partnering up and getting it fixed, but it it, it will be a great project when we when we get it finished. And like I say, to help 01:34:28
build the relationships with with our other partners in it. 01:34:35
Sure. Thank you for your for your update today and some of the history I I didn't realize some of the history of it, although I 01:34:41
know I know about 5055 years of it. But thank you. 01:34:48
Thank you, supervisor. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Joseph, for you and everyone involved. So. 01:34:56
This is one of those things where you either fix it or tear it down. It's it's a building that's aging and justice needs a lot of 01:35:05
care. And so as we go through that care, I see here on one of your pagers a partnership that the city of Globe is contributing. 01:35:14
A lot 1.4. 01:35:24
And a half million, is that what I'm reading right there? And so will that be enough to complete the planned project with all of 01:35:27
the offices and bathrooms and everything that you have planned for it? With that, Sir, we're highly confident in that estimate. 01:35:33
With that being said, there's still a lot of work that needs to happen, such as the design. And when we go through that design, 01:35:39
we're really going to have a better understanding. 01:35:45
Of what that scope is, I see the concepts here you have a page on concepts. 01:35:52
And pretty extensive. Looks really good so. 01:35:59
I like the front. 01:36:03
Looks modern and vibrant. 01:36:05
I think it's a great thing that we're saving the building and I'm going to put it to good use so. 01:36:09
Yes, Sir. Thank you, Joseph. Thank you, Mr. Chair. One more whom is going to. 01:36:14
Do the design and what what I mean, what it I I can see kind of the breakdown design and so you said do the design on A1 picture. 01:36:22
It looks like it's already been pretty much done. Is that done just a hand drawing to kind of give. 01:36:31
Something of what it might be and and it's not any part of an actual design supervisor. Humphrey, that's a great question. Yes, on 01:36:42
your last point, it's just a concept to give inspiration of what it could look like. 01:36:48
OK. But but going forward with an engineering company, I would guess on who's going to do the design, this is kind of what you're 01:36:55
going to give them for what all the partners would like to see out of the building. I this is when we do give it to him, it'll be 01:37:02
just as a concept. 01:37:08
After we get input from stakeholders, that's what's really going to determine the layout and what it's going to look like. 01:37:16
OK. And when, when do you think the stakeholders are going to get together to kind of give engine engineering it it seems to me 01:37:23
working with engineers in the past, if you give them an open sheet, then gosh, she only knows what you're going to end up with, 01:37:30
you know, bronze statues in the middle of the hall or some darn thing. So anyway, I guess going forward when, when are the 01:37:36
stakeholders going to get together to kind of give some perimeters? 01:37:42
Of a of a design company. We'll be working with the team to look at establishing that, Sir. 01:37:49
OK. In the next six months, next year and a half, it'll it'll be in the next two to three months. It's good. Thank you. No 01:37:57
problem. 01:38:02
Great. Well, I don't know that I have any more questions on that. I'm glad we're proceeding with it. 01:38:07
So thanks for all your effort. Thank you very much. OK. 01:38:14
A little faster than I thought, which is great, so let's keep moving on. 01:38:20
Item 3 is a call to the public. Cassandra, do you have anybody that wants to say anything on the Internet there now? How many do 01:38:26
we have today? 01:38:30
Three, that's great. OK, Anyone here locally in Globe that wishes to address? 01:38:35
US call to the public no. And Tyler anyone in Payson? 01:38:43
OK, great. So let's move on to item number 4, which is our reports. 01:38:51
Manager men love. 01:38:56
This chairman, two things I'd like to bring up today. First of all, at a season of gratitude, long term trust, appreciation to 01:39:00
Healer County employee. We have many great employees that are committed to service, service to the public. I appreciate them. We 01:39:08
all appreciate them and the work that they do to hopefully bring things, make things better for the citizens of Healer County. 01:39:16
And what I acknowledge the Board of Supervisors and as a part of the budget. 01:39:25
Was included at 2% merit raise increase for departments and it'll be similar to what was done last year that departments will be 01:39:29
allowed a a lump sum 2% of their salaries budget to administer as they see fit intended as when there are some issues of 01:39:38
compression that we may be able to address some of those it may be for. 01:39:46
It typically would be tied to a merit increase so that. 01:39:56
Departments can based on personnel evaluations, employee evaluations that they can give raises to those that are a step ahead and 01:39:59
a step above others that they will have that flexibility at the department level. So thank you to the Board of supervised for 01:40:07
allowing that and and looking out for our employees that we can hopefully give a little bit more 2% in January, maybe the first 01:40:14
full paper in January and then the second paycheck employee second. 01:40:22
Check in January that those will take effect. 01:40:29
I wanted to acknowledge the Healer County Provisional Community College District. There's an article in the Arizona Silver Belt, 01:40:35
so I think I can go ahead and speak to that, that there's been significant. 01:40:41
Progress made in the Community College district. We're thankful for them because education is important to our youth that live 01:40:49
here in Gila County and this is a great opportunity that the IT is. The Accrediting Commission for Community and Junior Colleges 01:40:57
peer review team came to both campuses of the Community College district. 01:41:05
Payson and Globe and there is a report that will be due out in January. 01:41:15
That will determine give an assessment of where the college is at and it gave three options that. 01:41:20
I think there's a great hope that the college will continue to move forward and that there's great hope to heal a county that as 01:41:30
an educational entity for Utah County, that there's progress being made and that we're moving forward. So I express appreciation 01:41:36
to the board. 01:41:43
Of the Community College district and to all those that have worked so hard to. 01:41:51
Continue to work and see that there is an educational opportunity for kids and youth and adults that all participate in the 01:41:56
Community College history. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Supervisor Humphrey. 01:42:02
Umm, well, on that note, yeah, it's great to see them moving forward trying to reach out on their own. They went through an awful 01:42:10
lot of heat. But I'm glad to see that the heat in the kitchen is, is creating a, a, a brighter future for, for not only the 01:42:17
people, but our education curriculum that, that, that they will be able to work with. And so that's good. And, and other than 01:42:25
that, I have nothing other than I would like to wish everybody. 01:42:32
Happy Thanksgiving and to have a safe and happy holiday and then this is the time of year for me where life slows down a little 01:42:40
bit and and enjoy things in life and pick up the fight in January. But I wish everybody a safe, happy holiday. 01:42:49
Thank you. And you know, I'll add to that. Let's say thank, thank for everyone here, this meeting, a good meeting and we have two 01:42:59
more this year next week and I think the week two weeks after that or something the 3rd and the 17th if I remember right. And and 01:43:06
then we're done for the year. So happy Thanksgiving everyone and be safe and enjoy your Thanksgiving. And with that, I'll adjourn 01:43:13
the meeting. Thank you. 01:43:20
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